Horses - how to improve difficulty

[bruce]

My only hesitation with this, is that it would ultimately be a gimmick in that the size of hit boxes and active areas of the lance, would render the whole thing pointless. I have no doubt that you guys could come up with some additional mechanic changes that would make this great, I'm just not sure how much effort it might take to get it working really well.

The only way it'd work is if only the tip of the spear/lance did damage, else it's pointless, if you connect the shaft of a moving lance with someone it connects for full pierce damage. So wildly bobbing around would actually make it easier, since any part of the lance could connect and instakill you. 

[Casimir]

For those that _still_ haven't gotten it - it's not about balancing cav vs other classes, it's about balancing cav vs cav, skill wise - giving cavalry players a similar learning curve as, for example infantry. Giving cavalry fine nuances that players can use to their advantage and shine out when compared to other, less skillful/experienced players. Giving cav techniques to use that are hard, if not impossible to master.

It's not about cav being OP or UP.

I have no doubt this will once again just be ignored anyway.

Edit: there were some very interesting ideas in this thread, though, some that we have already come up with ourselves, and some new ones as well.

• Return lance angles to their original state. This keeps a cap on 'backstabbing' lancer cav as you get dedicated lancers hunting other cav.
• Increase horse health, decrease armour significantly for unarmoured horses and partially for armoured horses.  This gives cavalry the confidence to attack aware targets but punishes those who make mistakes and are caught ut by melee
• Rework the manoeuvre statistic by removing the link between turning ability and acceleration.   Making them separate statistics will allow a manoeuvring horse that doesn't fly like a saturn 5 rocket.

[CrazyCracka420]

i agree, acceleration should be independent from the maneuver of the horse.  And I would also agree that horsemen should require a more dedicated class.  As 18/18 build, 21/18, or 21/15, all these builds are very useful on foot as well as horse.  I'd hate to lose my fun when I'm infantry as well, but I think that would also be a welcome change.  Make people decide if they are dedicated horsemen or not.  I think the only viable footman/horseman hybrid should be people riding on saddle horses (3 riding).  Not with 5, or 6 riding.

Then you could also bring back more of a riding bonus for the riding skill.  As it stands, there's not much difference between my 6 riding on a saddle horse, and 3 riding.  I really don't notice a difference at all.  This would further help differentiate one cavalryman from the next.

The other big thing I'd like to see is weapons having static damage set to them.  But I think this is a limitation of warband.  A horse, or infantry who runs into the tip of a spear should be injured.  If I'm on foot and  run into my buddies sword, I should take some damage.  If you could do this, it would open up the possibilities to "brace" a spear or lance and deal great damage to the horse.

[_Tak_]

Remove ctrl+J and horse jumping = good solution, also give infantry a chance to crouch

[Torben]

Remove ctrl+J and horse jumping = good solution, also give infantry a chance to crouch

not horse jumping : /

just add new movement features and make the over all needed/ possible (real) skill level higher.

[polkafranzi]

Remove ctrl+J and horse jumping = good solution, also give infantry a chance to crouch

it's either one or the other, not fucking both.  Can't remove fucking cav jump and ctrl+j and then add crouch, think about it before you post.

[LordBerenger]

No, no no no no no no. Ctrl J...meh it's good when getting chased by cav and to trick inf.


But absolutely NOT jumping. It's one of cavs few ways to possibly dodge arrows without having a high maneuever horse and also good and works sometimes when you don't want to bump your teammates so you jump over em instead (when you can't slow down).

[bruce]

Jumping is really really fine as it is.

[CrazyCracka420]

Yeah don't remove jumping. Would be lame to see a 1 foot high rock and not be able to clear it.

[matt2507]

always related to my first post (link), i deepened my idea of ​​separate armors and I rebalance the stats:

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

I made a distinction between three classes of horses:

- The speed class
- The class maneuverable
- The robust class

I also dropped all stats to maximum level of 42.
This will prevent the horses op was due of heirloom.

[LordBerenger]

38 speed for Destrier? Oh god, i do not wanna see how you've set the Plated Chargers speed to lol....

Not to mention problem with most QQ cav nerfers (and in this case you) is that you assume everyone got loomed +3 cav.

[CrazyCracka420]

One of my biggest pet peeves is whistling over a horse and it's not +3 loomed.  You poor fucks need to stop riding horses 

I'm going to start spamming this picture in every "nerf x,y,z" thread.  I added "leave c-rpg alone" to one of these pictures, but I think it's on my home pc.

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LEAVE c-rpg ALONE!

[Kafein]

For those that _still_ haven't gotten it - it's not about balancing cav vs other classes, it's about balancing cav vs cav, skill wise - giving cavalry players a similar learning curve as, for example infantry. Giving cavalry fine nuances that players can use to their advantage and shine out when compared to other, less skillful/experienced players. Giving cav techniques to use that are hard, if not impossible to master.

It's not about cav being OP or UP.

I have no doubt this will once again just be ignored anyway.

Edit: there were some very interesting ideas in this thread, though, some that we have already come up with ourselves, and some new ones as well.

Please do not disregard my posts for this reason. I think we can improve cav vs cav combat a lot through both novelty and tweaking existing features and exposed my suggestions here, but I felt I couldn't really leave that post like that and added a few countermeasures to make sure the mod stays balanced if the changes are made.

A greater lance angle would hurt 1h cav but also give back much of the fun of lancer vs lancer combat and help lancers a lot against aware inf. Collisions with stronger consequences (especially 2 horses colliding) would make riding around more difficult globally.


Also, I think this :

Rework the manoeuvre statistic by removing the link between turning ability and acceleration.   Making them separate statistics will allow a manoeuvring horse that doesn't fly like a saturn 5 rocket.[/li][/list]

is a potentially wonderful idea. Acceleration should be more related to the speed stat imo.

[matt2507]

38 speed for Destrier? Oh god, i do not wanna see how you've set the Plated Chargers speed to lol....

yes, it is a 38 speed but if you look at the specialty, you'll notice it has 42 load and has 30 armor.

Not to mention problem with most QQ cav nerfers (and in this case you) is that you assume everyone got loomed +3 cav.

I am a cav...

I'm just trying to find a solution to "equilibrate" the horses a little while trying to ensure that they remain fun to play.

and I do not need to take my stats as is, this is an example that might give ideas.

[polkafranzi]

always related to my first post (link), i deepened my idea of ​​separate armors and I rebalance the stats:

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

I made a distinction between three classes of horses:

- The speed class
- The class maneuverable
- The robust class

I also dropped all stats to maximum level of 42.
This will prevent the horses op was due of heirloom.

Sorry to tell you but you should've spent the time you needed making that table on cleaning the shit out of your eyes.

Yes, let's all ride my little pony.