Horses - how to improve difficulty

[matt2507]

Sorry to tell you but you should've spent the time you needed making that table on cleaning the shit out of your eyes.

Yes, let's all ride my little pony.

before cleaning the crap in my eyes, should not be cleaning the shit in this post.

The nerf of horses is inevitable due to whinners.

So if you do not want to get stuck with a stupid stamina bar or I do not know any other kind of shit, i advise you to contribute ideas rather to unnecessarily flood this post as most people who do not like the Cavs.

[Oberyn]

Meh, the guy actually went through the trouble of giving a comprehensive idea with all cav types defined, you might not agree with his choices (I don't particularly) but it's a more concrete proposal than any that have been posted yet in the thread.
Personally I think you're trying to blend the different types of cav too gradually, it makes for easier balancing but the different sometimes wildly varying "flavors" of cav as of now is something I enjoy. For high end unarmored horses Destrier (medium cav), Arab horse (maneuv light cav), and Courser (speed light cav) each fill their role pretty well. Blending them into each other doesn't seem like a fun option.

[Overdriven]

i agree, acceleration should be independent from the maneuver of the horse.  And I would also agree that horsemen should require a more dedicated class.  As 18/18 build, 21/18, or 21/15, all these builds are very useful on foot as well as horse.  I'd hate to lose my fun when I'm infantry as well, but I think that would also be a welcome change.  Make people decide if they are dedicated horsemen or not.  I think the only viable footman/horseman hybrid should be people riding on saddle horses (3 riding).  Not with 5, or 6 riding.

Then you could also bring back more of a riding bonus for the riding skill.  As it stands, there's not much difference between my 6 riding on a saddle horse, and 3 riding.  I really don't notice a difference at all.  This would further help differentiate one cavalryman from the next.

I like this. Acceleration, speed and manoeuvre should all be different. At the moment an Arabian is so fast because it changes speeds so quickly. A courser may have top speed, but it takes  A LOT longer to reach that speed. An Arabian is actually over all faster because any changes in terrain cause the courser to slow right down and have to start its acceleration all over again, that way Arabians can actually easily keep up with a courser, especially a champ on 7 riding. It would be great to see those stats split up.

[matt2507]

Meh, the guy actually went through the trouble of giving a comprehensive idea with all cav types defined, you might not agree with his choices (I don't particularly) but it's a more concrete proposal than any that have been posted yet in the thread.
Personally I think you're trying to blend the different types of cav too gradually, it makes for easier balancing but the different sometimes wildly varying "flavors" of cav as of now is something I enjoy. For high end unarmored horses Destrier (medium cav), Arab horse (maneuv light cav), and Courser (speed light cav) each fill their role pretty well. Blending them into each other doesn't seem like a fun option.

As I said, do not specifically take my values ​​to accuracy.

This is really indicative.

I tried to do so each class have a subtlety, but I can not know by myself what exactly it gives.
Reinforce class differences might actually be a good thing.

[Adrian]

These would be suggestions to increase the amount of skill it requires to play cav specifically lancer cav. Not saying all these suggestions should be implemented together, but something needs to be changed to increase the learning curve

- any lance with a thrust attack ability no longer has Couching capabilities, the "couch only" lances will be the only ones capable of it. This or simply add a possibility for the player's lance to break after having couched someone.
Reason: this would eliminate cav players from speccing no wpf into polearm yet being able to one shot players simply by hitting X and riding into someone. Seriously Couching ridiculous.

- riding your horse into objects now damages your horse based off of how fast you were riding.
Reason: this would help with the mindless cav players simply riding full speed into walls to kill someone. Then simply riding off as if that stone wall they just rode into never phased them.

- horse speeds, specifically the courser need reduced.
Reason: yes a player's awareness often determines how often they are killed by cav to a certain extent. However, Cav in a lot of cases is too quick to counter, already Couching or slashing you in the back before you even have time to turn around or move out of the way.

- some sort of new riding system could be possible, where there would be a lot more to riding than just simply pressing w to accelerate and s to slow down.
Reason: would actually cause cav to have some sort of learning curve to help balance how deadly it is.

So as I stated these are just a few suggestions, doesnt mean that all of them implemented together would be fair to cav players, they are only suggestions. However, cav does need something implemented to help increase the playing curve, make it require a little more player side skill.

[Riddaren]

- any lance with a thrust attack ability no longer has Couching capabilities, the "couch only" lances will be the only ones capable of it.

Limiting the options/actions will not increase the gap between good and bad players. That's the case for all classes.

Instead add functionality to all classes with varying difficulty.

[polkafranzi]

Limiting the options/actions will not increase the gap between good and bad players. That's the case for all classes.

Instead add functionality to all classes with varying difficulty.

I agree

[Mithus]

If the developers and players want to invent excuses to see less cavalry on maps, instead of trying to do things that will not work do simple things like:

- 90% of the maps are for cavalry designed, change the way that maps are designed.
- Increased the cost of horses

To me the arguments about cavalry be OP, is just nonsense. Of Course on a open field with chaos of hundreds of players combating they will score easily.
Just because we see more players on horses that does not mean that it has to be nerfed.

[Vodner]

The issue with cav at the moment, is that a cav player can contribute effectively to his team with less practice than with most other classes.

There is a world of difference between good, experienced cav and mediocre cav. That being said, a mediocre cav player can contribute far more to his team than he would be able to as mediocre infantry or as a mediocre archer (assuming he plays cautiously and doesn't just get himself dehorsed at the beginning of every round).

[Mithus]

The issue with cav at the moment, is that a cav player can contribute effectively to his team with less practice than with most other classes.

There is a world of difference between good, experienced cav and mediocre cav. That being said, a mediocre cav player can contribute far more to his team than he would be able to as mediocre infantry or as a mediocre archer (assuming he plays cautiously and doesn't just get himself dehorsed at the beginning of every round).

Why do you think that stab someone in the back, coming from rear in high speed would have any type high player skill, and that is how both good and bad cav players get most of their kills in a hundred player battle. That only happens because the conditions of the map and the chaos of battle are in, and of course the weapons that counter cav most easily are 3 slots(long spear).

[ROHYPNOL]

in all honesty when you took away swinging to the side for cav.. taht made cav vs cav battle retarted.. now people just chase you from the back and try to gank you.. i rem taking on 1 v5+ cav because i was good at it.. now people are scared of you they will avoid you and just chase your back to try to gank you

[The_Bloody_Nine]

no one commented on my awesome youtube-link 

[Kafein]

- 90% of the maps are for cavalry designed, change the way that maps are designed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayMRS9TAQ3s&feature=related

The issue with cav at the moment, is that a cav player can contribute effectively to his team with less practice than with most other classes.

There is a world of difference between good, experienced cav and mediocre cav. That being said, a mediocre cav player can contribute far more to his team than he would be able to as mediocre infantry or as a mediocre archer (assuming he plays cautiously and doesn't just get himself dehorsed at the beginning of every round).

Well that's reasonable, but then the mediocre inf player will stay in his group and play as 2nd line support, and the mediocre archer will stick to his infantry and look around after each shot. I wonder who will do the most damage.

I've seen mediocre cav players. They die. And they look very dumb while dying.

But cav is so hermetic you don't see a lot of noobs trying it, or at least not for long enough to be acknowledged.

[Dede]

The current controls with "WASD" is actually pretty good. Changing it to something different would be complicated.(At least I cant think of a better solution right now..)
But instead of changing riding from scratch, you guys could improve the current one.
As many have already mentioned this could be: acceleration/speed control,exhaustion,lance angle,etc

Forcefield:
Some Players complain about the force field with shields. (But they never question how it is possible to downblock an lancecav at full speed with a wooden stick... oh well,whatever )

Maybe this could be a solution:
2 stages of blocking with shield on horseback:
for example:
down-block= shield blocks legs
up-block=shield blocks upper body
So when the rider blocks his upper body and you hit his legs, there will be no force field etc.

Accelaration/Speed:
I think the accelaration/Speed and exhousting implementation of "Zelda Ocarina of time" is worth looking at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqHY9Xe6_0k&t=1m0s

just replace the carrots with horsewhip/horseshoes icons etc.:


like this...
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As you can assume riding at fullspeed all the time is not possible with this . You have to use the "speed boosts"(horsewhip/horseshoes) wisely.
When you use them too fast your horse will get exhousted and slows down (-50%speed ? ). In order to ride fast again, you have to wait for some time(when there is a free "boost" available).


The lance angle:
The lance angle nerf has influenced heavy cav more than light cav, since they have a bad maneuverability. I got used to it after a time, but I have still hard time to counter a good-cav-player+arabian-horse.
Changing it back would make cav duells more interesting.




PS: I have been inactive for a long time, so I dont know much about the current state of cRPG. But back then when I played, the balance system was bad. The various classes should be also taking into account when it comes to balance. Or we end up playing  Team1:   3cav   vs  Team2: 15 cav .

[Kafein]

Btw polkafranzi

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I hate you.