Horses - how to improve difficulty

[Torben]

You could implement a series of commands to "walk" "gate" and "gallop"

fuck yeah!  keep the directional keys,  but turn "w" and "s" into voice commands that encourage the horse to go faster or slower.  the more riding skill you have,  the more impact the command has.

also change riders model according to horses speed, giving him a stance when galloping.  last but not least,  give horses either aforementioned gallop/charge mode with cooldown or even better,  make all horses +10 faster and - 10 maneuver,  whilst giving horses corpses crush through : )


edit,  with decreasesed maneuver,  restore the old lance spectrum ^^

[BlueKnight]

Alright you all smart brains etc. about that hitting obstacles with a horse, how should it be done when a horse hits other horse? Also the telepoting of cav that sometimes happen or just lag can kill your horse then :\ I like the damage horse by hitting objects but we should think about all factors. I suggest receiving dmg for the horse that got hit by other horse.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

make it work like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnZU4l9Lfyg

horse rides automatic, WASD only for staying on the horse


seriously I like the thought of more difficult riding but have no idea how to do it with 1 hand on keyboard. Perhaps somekind of thrust (like in space game) with mousewheel (can you expect everyone to have one?) and use A+D to counterbalance horsemovement otherwise you fall down, but I'll doubt that would work/be fun.

[Lannistark]

- The stamina idea is a pretty good one. It's unrealistic a horse blazes through the battlefield at top speed with 100kg of weight over it. A stamina system where the faster you go and the more weight you carry, the stamina decreases more seems fine. Then horse can only trot and recover stamina slowly.

- Obstacles are good as well. At the moment bumping into trees or something does not make any damage to horse or rider. I suggest adding a damage penalty depending on the speed (as the damage system inflicted when attacking on horse in warband singleplayer) i.e: x = $horse speed ; x* "whatever variable you want to add" = whatever. Then inflict that penalty on horse | rider.

- Concerning rider. I think there should be a probability for the rider to fall of horse when attacked by melee. Currently when horses bump into a wave of enemies nothing happens to them as they are in full plate of chargers. Again, another multiplier such as x = $riding skill ; x * "whatever variable you want to add" = whatever. Or a random seed could work as well.

- Controls for horses should remain the same. The difficulty should come in game variables, not in game controls. Most new players have trouble lancing someone already, so I suggest increasing the difficulty of lances ie: making them slower or more difficult to aim when at high speeds.


EDIT: Make Ctrl + J the pro tool for horsemen. 

[Idzo]

Make couch last for 2-3 seconds so guys who play cav have to have good timing on using couch.

[bruce]

- The stamina idea is a pretty good one. It's unrealistic a horse blazes through the battlefield at top speed with 100kg of weight over it. A stamina system where the faster you go and the more weight you carry, the stamina decreases more seems fine. Then horse can only trot and recover stamina slowly.

But there is no gallop / topspeed in crpg, esp. slower horses (but more agile) are more like something... I don't know what, but not horses. A triggerable (cooldown) gallop + much less maneuver would make horses behave more like horses.

[AvengerC47]

Like this?

I mean, I kinda liked that but most people stopped riding horses in that game because it's frustrating for them.

so... it will be better ;)


but without damaging a horse coz of speed and maybe with some stamina in max speed

[Joseph Porta]

 Less acceleration, Fairly high top speed just a longer to get there would make such a differance.. No instant-top-speed retard god horses.

[Kafein]

Skillbased = freedom + unforgiving.

This post is to be considered as a whole, otherwise it isn't balanced.

Riding can be made unforgiving :

1) Collisions

Collisions should be very serious business. Two horses colliding = two riders that fall down and take damage, no matter who stopped who. Eventually horses stay alive and flee, depending on the force of the impact. Collisions with obstacles should have even worse consequences.


2) Blocking on horse

It is not normal that fairly frequently the horse is protected when the rider blocks. An error is an error and should have consequences.


3) Tanking with horses

No playstyle should ever rely on tanking damage. All horse HP values must be decreased and all armor removed from horses that visually don't have armor.


4) Armored riders

I'm one of them and this only makes my point even more valid. Create a tradeoff for wearing armor on a horse. Currently there is no downside to it. I think each horse should have a cap on how much weight it is able to carry, and it's max speed and acceleration should also be influenced by the weight of the rider.


Simultaneously, riding should offer more possibilities :

1) Maneuver

Contrary to popular belief among players which aren't very used to cav, decreasing maneuver cannot make cav more skillbased, only less. Skill is what you make of your freedom, if you don't have freedom, your skill doesn't matter. If anything, maneuver needs to be increased a lot on all horses.

2) Speed

Speed needs to be increased slightly in flat plains and massively on smooth elevations (the usual not-quite-hilly-but-still-renders-your-horse-useless kind of terrain). Having good horse speed on hills is of course unrealistic, but so are the maps in this mod. Fix the maps and make realistic terrain, then we can speak about horse speed reductions on slopes.

2) Lance angle

Return the old lance angle (again, skill through freedom and I think this one is widely accepted).

[bruce]

Kafein, I agree, except with horse maneuver. More speed is fine, esp. on flat grounds (and there should be more flat grounds), but maneuver? No.

It is all too easy to avoid nasty things even with a moderately-maneuverable horse. When you get up to full speed, being able to stop very quickly and veer off, makes it too easy. Yes, it makes it possible for a skilled horseman to do more, however... your options should be quite restricted when you charge and then see a pike/spear 5 metres away, else it's again too easy even for a mediocre horseman.

Being able to evade too easily is somewhat solved by reintroducing normal lancing angles.

Armour reducing speed by a significant margin is neither that realistic (unless the effect is slight, or impacts only really heavy armour on "light" horses) nor balanced (it favours horse ranged which tend to wear less, as it makes it fair easier for them to shoot lancers / 1h cav dead).

[Torben]

(click to show/hide)

Skillbased = freedom + unforgiving.

This post is to be considered as a whole, otherwise it isn't balanced.

Riding can be made unforgiving :

1) Collisions

Collisions should be very serious business. Two horses colliding = two riders that fall down and take damage, no matter who stopped who. Eventually horses stay alive and flee, depending on the force of the impact. Collisions with obstacles should have even worse consequences.


2) Blocking on horse

It is not normal that fairly frequently the horse is protected when the rider blocks. An error is an error and should have consequences.


3) Tanking with horses

No playstyle should ever rely on tanking damage. All horse HP values must be decreased and all armor removed from horses that visually don't have armor.


4) Armored riders

I'm one of them and this only makes my point even more valid. Create a tradeoff for wearing armor on a horse. Currently there is no downside to it. I think each horse should have a cap on how much weight it is able to carry, and it's max speed and acceleration should also be influenced by the weight of the rider.


Simultaneously, riding should offer more possibilities :

1) Maneuver

Contrary to popular belief among players which aren't very used to cav, decreasing maneuver cannot make cav more skillbased, only less. Skill is what you make of your freedom, if you don't have freedom, your skill doesn't matter. If anything, maneuver needs to be increased a lot on all horses.

2) Speed

Speed needs to be increased slightly in flat plains and massively on smooth elevations (the usual not-quite-hilly-but-still-renders-your-horse-useless kind of terrain). Having good horse speed on hills is of course unrealistic, but so are the maps in this mod. Fix the maps and make realistic terrain, then we can speak about horse speed reductions on slopes.

2) Lance angle

Return the old lance angle (again, skill through freedom and I think this one is widely accepted).

sounds great,  specially the two horses collide,  riders fall off thing would be great fun ^^
removing armor and  reducing hp on horses however would need an adjustment concerning ranged.  a horse dying from one shot to the body is like you dying from a toothpick sticking in your shoulder.

[bruce]

Not really, bows were/are used throughout time to hunt for large game as well, a high-power bow (like the rus/longbow in crpg) is very lethal to unarmoured targets, moreso then in crpg. Archers shooting in the flanks of a cavalry charge was quite effective, if you had time to set up defenses so they can't charge them directly.

[Overdriven]

Horses colliding thing sounds kind of daft to me. I just don't think it would make sense in the game environment. The maps simply aren't big enough unless on open plains or desert and so with even a medium number of horsemen per side collisions are inevitable. I'd like a complete over haul of the maps if something like that was introduced.

Not really, bows were/are used throughout time to hunt for large game as well, a high-power bow (like the rus/longbow in crpg) is very lethal to unarmoured targets, moreso then in crpg. Archers shooting in the flanks of a cavalry charge was quite effective, if you had time to set up defenses so they can't charge them directly.

From a game balance + enjoyment perspective though, having your horse 1 shot by a rus bow would not be fun. Would seriously negate any point of putting points in riding for most people if your horse dies instantly.

[bruce]

Every map a random plains (large) map with little elevation, and perhaps a random ruin here and there. That would be great.

[Teeth]

3) Tanking with horses

No playstyle should ever rely on tanking damage. All horse HP values must be decreased and all armor removed from horses that visually don't have armor.

That is kinda what medieval cavalry did. They crushed into their enemies using momentum and weight. Decreasing HP and armor will only increase the lame thing that cav is in this mod. A backstabbing class. I think cavalry should be changed in something that can effectively attack an aware enemy, but only those with short weapons. I really don't know why anyone would want cav to rely completely on backstabbing, also ranged would rape horses if they get any less durable.

1) Maneuver

Contrary to popular belief among players which aren't very used to cav, decreasing maneuver cannot make cav more skillbased, only less. Skill is what you make of your freedom, if you don't have freedom, your skill doesn't matter. If anything, maneuver needs to be increased a lot on all horses.

Everytime I've played cav I noticed how much more room for error I had when I used an Arabian. High maneuver allows you to fuck up, but get out before you get properly punished for your mistake. You can also charge someone, back off at the last moment, you don't have to commit and deal with the consequences of a bad judgement call. You can even run into a pike and use your super acceleration to get out alive.

Having lower maneuver forces cav to anticipate, people with good battle awareness will make the proper choices, and be good cav and therefore it will be more skillbased. With even higher maneuver every joker can just turn around whenever his shitty plan turns out to not work.

Make horses a lot tougher on the front, but not versus pikemen, less maneuverable and make their hooves noise louder. Cav will be able to do much more against an aware enemy. Lower manuever means that they are less unpredictable and maybe that will make people more aware of cav. You just spot them once, see that they are not going to be a danger. With the current Arabians, you have to look around every 5 seconds cause they could've turned around at any time.

Obviously give them their lance angle back. That is long overdue.

Fuck, now I missed the point of this thread aswell, discussing how to fix the current system like a derp.