Author Topic: The Longbowman  (Read 3062 times)

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Offline Adamar

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2012, 07:53:48 pm »
+1
Maybe the archery system should be changed so that being a bow armed peasant that runs away all the time is not the way to go.

That's the point with armored archers. I keep repeating myself around the forums, but the devs like their kiting archers it seems.

Offline Joker86

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2012, 07:54:00 pm »
0
It's kinda unfair that archers have plenty of ugly items to choose from while infantry get all the good armors.

You can't argue that way.

What you decribed there was a professional, probably English longbowman. A professional, no levied peasant. (Which had mail and some stuff, too, I admit). Many of them were even mounted. (Which doesn't mean they fought from horseback).

There was a difference in "value" on the battlefield for certain troops. Knights and professional men at arms had the highest value, followed by professional infantry/sergeants on foot and probably professional archers. THEN all the levies came, the conscripted peasants and archers and the like.

The problem is: each player can only control one avatar. Which means, to balance the value of all players on the battlefield, all (comparable) avatars need to be of the same value. Please don't tell me I have to exlpain every player has to have the same value on the battlefield, at least concerning the starting conditions. Of course it's his business what he makes out of it with his skills.

But you can't simply put history into a game, because history was unfair, a game can't be, or it wouldn't be a game any more. A player who plays a knight can not be ten times or more as valuable as a player who plays a conscripted spearman. Sure, character level and equipment do make a (justified) difference, but game wise you can't put archers in brigandines when some infantry runs around only in mail. The game balance would be broken.

That's why I think the entire subforum is retarded.
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Penitent

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2012, 08:05:00 pm »
0
Yeah, stamina, right. Nice scenario, but we're talking about archery, you usually dont need to run to get to the enemy.

LOL.  Show me an archer in CRPG that does RUN and I'll show you a pike user that doesn't backpedal.

 :lol:

Offline ToxicKilla

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2012, 08:13:28 pm »
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I use that armour set up on my archer character, despite the penalty to accuracy. It's just worth it to look that awesome.

Offline Adamar

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2012, 08:14:51 pm »
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LOL.  Show me an archer in CRPG that does RUN and I'll show you a pike user that doesn't backpedal.

 :lol:

*random facepalm pic*

You where just assuming that archers would be tired all the time. Lets use that argument in all classes, yay.

Offline Elindor

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2012, 08:18:15 pm »
0
i wonder if rescaling of WPF curve chadz mentioned will change this somewhat....
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Offline Penitent

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2012, 08:20:25 pm »
+1
*random facepalm pic*

You where just assuming that archers would be tired all the time. Lets use that argument in all classes, yay.

No, I'm saying that armor weight reduces accuracy.  Why would this happen, if we are to take realism into consideration?  Because the weight of the armor on your neck, shoulders, arms, hands, and feet would make it a bit more difficult to aim a bow.

THEN someone said "how can body armor make it hard to aim a bow?  I dun get it." 
So then I used a more drawn out example how fatigue from wearing heavy body armor only (not even hands and feet) can make it harder to aim a bow.  Then I stated how its not a perfect system, but in the game we have...as it is...it not so bad.

I didn't say anything about archers being tired all the time.  If you want to add a stamina factor later, they can be tired some of the time.  But for now, in the realm of "realism"-- being tired can be considered ONE variable (of several) that can lead to body armor reducing accuracy.  That's all I was saying and I don't think there is anything incorrect or unreasonable in saying that.  :)

Offline Leshma

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2012, 11:52:45 pm »
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Garison this is combination of cloth and reinforced leather. I don't understand why it has such high armor rating, it's meant for archers. But giving archers 50 armor and decent melee ability could help the issue and that's kiting.

Offline Penitent

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2012, 12:10:46 am »
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Balance-wise, I think you're right.  It's kind of a high armor for archers.  Realism though, this leather is reinforced with metal plates!  Here's an inside view of a brigandine.

Brigandine, Italian, c1470, Royal Armoury, Leeds
(click to show/hide)

It depends on how thick the plates are, but I think it would protect better than chain mail (the torso section anyways).  An aketon is a heavy multi-layered padded cloth.  It would be lighter than leather though.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 12:15:50 am by Garison »

Offline Leshma

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2012, 12:33:58 am »
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There are two types of brigandines: light version and two heavy versions (inculding old bringandine).

Neither seem to be refinforced with such thick plates, otherwise it would have 49 or more armor rating.

Heavy brigandines have mail shirt bellow, light have padded cloth.

Offline Adamar

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2012, 12:35:38 am »
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It was developed way earlier than the 15th century, and it originaly had thick metal rings tied together under the leather.

Offline Casimir

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2012, 02:06:31 am »
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Balance-wise, I think you're right.  It's kind of a high armor for archers.  Realism though, this leather is reinforced with metal plates!  Here's an inside view of a brigandine.

Brigandine, Italian, c1470, Royal Armoury, Leeds
(click to show/hide)

It depends on how thick the plates are, but I think it would protect better than chain mail (the torso section anyways).  An aketon is a heavy multi-layered padded cloth.  It would be lighter than leather though.

Something of that thickness is moving towards coat of plates.  Jack of plates and brigadines were normally made of smaller, and thinner plates iirc.

Obviously styles varied differently according to personal preference and wealth as well as regional styling.  Welsh Longbowman very rarely wore a jack of plates or maile preferring hardy leathers and hide.
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Offline Ragnar

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2012, 01:17:35 am »
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In reference to that hat in the first post... wearing a wide brim hat of any kind is a pain in the dick if your actually shooting a bow, go ahead and try lol, what happens when you draw the string to cheek.....
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Offline Leshma

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2012, 01:19:01 am »
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According to history books, archers did wear that in middle ages.

Offline Ragnar

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Re: The Longbowman
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2012, 01:27:57 am »
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According to history books, archers did wear that in middle ages.
you mean the ones they wore with a inch brim, or the ones in our game here that are like metal 10 gallon hats....
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