Weapon Master Buff- less wpf reduction from armor

[San]

As a quick fix without the complication of changing current wpf curves, higher values in weapon master should lower the amount of wpf reduction from armor.

I was thinking that 7% less wpf reduction from armor for every WM might be good. Getting massively  high WM means you can't wear enough armor for it to matter anways.



Weapon master as a skill is currently very weak. With 0 WM, you can get 110-120 wpf easily. If WM can help maintain effective WPF values, it helps buff hybrids while not buffing pure builds too much since even a small reduction hurts higher wpf values, and helps classes that relies on high WM.

This will be a nice duality between strength that helps maintain your running speed with armor, and WM that helps maintain your swing speed with armor.

Ranged:
They will be able to wear more armor without as many penalties except for running speed. They will also make more use of 60-100 wpf sidearm. They will be faster but they still won't hurt much.

Hybrids:
They will get more out of each point of wpf they have. If they have 100 wpf in another weapon, the effective wpf will be closer to 90-100 with a high WM build than it was before in the same armor.

High WM pure builds:
With 160-180 WM, they can wear more armor and keep pretty high WM. Due to their low strength, they can't wear armor that is too heavy if they don't want their movement speed to be drastically slower. Any reduction to high WPF is harsher than it is for something like 130 WPF. Swing speeds won't get any faster than a high WM build with barely any armor at all.


Low WM builds are unaffected and play exactly the same.


The average player with 5-6 WM would receive a slight-medium boost.


Possible problems:
Medium armor becomes way too good. With looms, everyone would be able to get decent armor values. This would devalue light armor a bit. Light armor would still be used mostly for movement speed anyways, though.



I believe completely reworking WPF would be better, but it will be quite complicated to get it right and still make WM viable. I just thought of this so there's bound to be problems I haven't thought about.

[Leshma]

I totally agree with your suggestion.

But it seems they want to buff naked spammers...

[Mala]

with light armour you already have nearly no reduction.
They would gain nothing while medium and heavy get the whole bonus.

[Bulzur]

I don't want to see heavy armored archers and xbow...
With 18 strength, you have a good variety of armor, yet archers tend to only use 12 str or lower armors. Let's not change that, shall we.

This will basically not buff WPM, but buff TINCANS. Since the othes in medium/light armor don't really care. So... no.

[San]

@ Mala:
Yeah, but they would still be slower in movement compared to a light armored foe, even though both may continue to swing quite fast. That movement is still important. It just doesn't FORCE light armor on agility builds. Remember that agility builds get slowed down by armor with the lack of strength.

@Bulzur:
Not heavy armor, but more along the lines that they'll be able to get within the ~30 or so body armor range safely instead of rags.
It will buff agility-based tincans, but heavy armor will still lower  effective wpf quite a bit. 5 WM is only 35% reduction, so if a tincan has 140 wpf and a ton of armor, instead of 90 effective wpf, they'll have closer to 105-110, which isn't that much. It will give them an advantage in swing speed over 0 WM tincans.

[Corsair831]

I totally agree with your suggestion.

But it seems they want to buff naked spammers...

it's a stupid suggestion, the armour wpf decrease is there to make sure there's SOME reason not to take super tanked armour, if you reduce that you're just overpowering armour even more than it already is ...

[owens]

The low armour threshold is misplaced.

Most Players are wearing 45+ armour. This is the middle ground.

Agility build should be able to approach these values without being completely gimped. At the moment medium, low and high armour weights are not matched to high, low and medium penalties. Or what chadz thinks high, low and medium armour is.

[Camaris]

I think its fine like it is.

[EyeBeat]

I would rather them buff people that wear light armor as opposed to medium armor.

They need it more.

[Bobthehero]

it's a stupid suggestion, the armour wpf decrease is there to make sure there's SOME reason not to take super tanked armour, if you reduce that you're just overpowering armour even more than it already is ...

Dafuq?

Go die in a hole, heavy armor's pretty bad at the moment.

@op
Do it.

[DaveUKR]

I actually particularly agree, but less WPF penalty should only be for real agiwhores, who don't really need to wear heavy armour (make it like 7WM is the same like now, 8WM give a little bit less wpf penalty, 6 WM give a little bit MORE wpf penalty).

Current problem is that tincans actually can have super speeds with their weapons, so they can backpedal and spam.

To sum up, there is no need to touch anything because Stamina implemention will sort things, we'll see, don't hurry.

[Matey]

As a quick fix without the complication of changing current wpf curves, higher values in weapon master should lower the amount of wpf reduction from armor.

I was thinking that 7% less wpf reduction from armor for every WM might be good.

i got this far then stopped reading. I hate your idea! it just means that wankers who wear armour despite having balanced or agi heavy builds will have no penalty unlike manly men who dont crutch on armour. if you want WPF to mean more, just do that... make it mean more... give more wpf per WM or maybe change the amount of points per wpf so that high agi chars get a more noticeable increase in speed. but from what i read of your proposal it would just be a slap in the face of people who are making sure to be super low weight to avoid penalties and would just encourage more wankers in armour.

[EyeBeat]

i got this far then stopped reading. I hate your idea! it just means that wankers who wear armour despite having balanced or agi heavy builds will have no penalty unlike manly men who dont crutch on armour.

I really do not understand why shielders wear armor anyways.

[oprah_winfrey]

i got this far then stopped reading. I hate your idea! it just means that wankers who wear armour despite having balanced or agi heavy builds will have no penalty unlike manly men who dont crutch on armour. if you want WPF to mean more, just do that... make it mean more... give more wpf per WM or maybe change the amount of points per wpf so that high agi chars get a more noticeable increase in speed. but from what i read of your proposal it would just be a slap in the face of people who are making sure to be super low weight to avoid penalties and would just encourage more wankers in armour.

Yeah except for the only part that is relevant to agi build at the moment, which is decrease in athletics, not wpf.

That being said, I think that this might buff archer hybrids a little too much.

[San]

I can't really think of anything for light armors sadly. I was thinking it would give users with agility more of an option how quickly they want to move on foot while not hindering their swing speed as much, and raise the average swing speed so str users are indirectly weakened. I would like to see WM useful in some way without really uber nerfing low WM builds too much. I see more of the flaws with my suggestion now though.