Author Topic: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...  (Read 6107 times)

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Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2012, 03:42:47 pm »
+2
I dont get it.

Are you suggesting that archers didn't exist?

Not at all, yes, of course they existed, but in this kind of capacity:
(click to show/hide)

notice how they are aiming upwards, not like your average Legolas cRPG archer.

Anyway that's for another thread, this is about equipment.
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Offline Adamar

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2012, 04:26:16 pm »
0
Archers didn't just shoot loosely into a mass of enemy infantry. Consider sieges or skirmishers.
In fact, use common sence before suggesting that archers couldn't aim at their targets.

Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2012, 04:35:56 pm »
0
Archers didn't just shoot loosely into a mass of enemy infantry. Consider sieges or skirmishers.
In fact, use common sence before suggesting that archers couldn't aim at their targets.

I don't recall typing "archers can't aim at targets".  Mainly it's that every single archer is a robin hood and the engine allows that, so you should be thankful that it does, because if we brought realism into it then...well, ya know, maybe my 62 head armor would finally do what it's meant to do and stop being invisible to arrows.
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Offline Vingnir the Wanderer

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2012, 07:47:05 pm »
+1
1. Berserks are a myth.
2. In the myth, they are naked or wear plain fur coats, not armor.

I fail to see how a Kuyak makes anyone feel like a berserk.

1. Berserks are most likely, not a myth, from what I've read.

There are numerous references in the more factual saga's, and they are often referenced as the Chieftain's personal guard.  From my observation, they seem to possibly be a precursor/earlier version to the later viking age bearded/two-handed axe guards seen among the late viking age, vikings and saxon armies, who where a more organized, uniformly outfitted and more group tactic prepared, personal retinue/body guard  of the War leader in question.  The extent of these late viking age 'axe guards' are often exaggerated, such as the Jomsvikings etc, but it is pretty well accepted, that the Saxon army of Harold Godwinson, probably had the finest example of these 'axe guards'. Its also of note, that, 1066/hastings seems to be the high point of the 'axe guard' and from this point on, they became secondary and then all together gone, replaced by heavier Cavalry, heavier armor, and longer polearms, and battle tactics that no longer could use them effectively. Atleast in the west. Its likely that the bearded axe continued on as an infantry weapon, but as a trained broup, and bodyguard, they seemed to fade into history.

2. They are also not always referenced as purely naked or in furs.  They where as referenced, more likely to go into battle less armored, and to cast away thier shields and helmets etc, at the proper time, in order not to exhaust themselves more.

3. There are references (I believe by the romans) of Continental Germanics from an earlier age, related to the Vikings, belonging to an Odinic/Wotanic cult, that, painted themselves black, and went into battle in such a way, but, the references in the later saga's, do not refer to berserks uniformly going into battle unclothed/in furs only, or even lightly armored, in some cases.  You may have seen an example of these earlier Wotanic berserkers in TW barbarian invasion, and Europa barborum.



« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 08:23:50 pm by Vingnir the Wanderer »

Offline Germanicus

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2012, 03:38:27 am »
0
watch some porn
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Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2012, 09:27:15 am »
0
watch some porn

That's good advice but only if you're the kind of guy that likes to take advice off somebody who's still a virgin  :wink:
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Offline Vingnir the Wanderer

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2012, 11:10:34 am »
0
hehehe

Offline Adamar

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2012, 03:58:49 pm »
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franzi doesn't like to watch porn.

Offline zagibu

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2012, 04:03:19 pm »
0
1. Berserks are most likely, not a myth, from what I've read.

There are numerous references in the more factual saga's, and they are often referenced as the Chieftain's personal guard.  From my observation, they seem to possibly be a precursor/earlier version to the later viking age bearded/two-handed axe guards seen among the late viking age, vikings and saxon armies, who where a more organized, uniformly outfitted and more group tactic prepared, personal retinue/body guard  of the War leader in question.  The extent of these late viking age 'axe guards' are often exaggerated, such as the Jomsvikings etc, but it is pretty well accepted, that the Saxon army of Harold Godwinson, probably had the finest example of these 'axe guards'. Its also of note, that, 1066/hastings seems to be the high point of the 'axe guard' and from this point on, they became secondary and then all together gone, replaced by heavier Cavalry, heavier armor, and longer polearms, and battle tactics that no longer could use them effectively. Atleast in the west. Its likely that the bearded axe continued on as an infantry weapon, but as a trained broup, and bodyguard, they seemed to fade into history.

2. They are also not always referenced as purely naked or in furs.  They where as referenced, more likely to go into battle less armored, and to cast away thier shields and helmets etc, at the proper time, in order not to exhaust themselves more.

3. There are references (I believe by the romans) of Continental Germanics from an earlier age, related to the Vikings, belonging to an Odinic/Wotanic cult, that, painted themselves black, and went into battle in such a way, but, the references in the later saga's, do not refer to berserks uniformly going into battle unclothed/in furs only, or even lightly armored, in some cases.  You may have seen an example of these earlier Wotanic berserkers in TW barbarian invasion, and Europa barborum.

Right, except that the first time berserks are mentioned is in a poem written by a guy known for inventing words to make his poems more poetic. Then they aren't mentioned again in a looooooong time.

The most credible explanation for berserks i've heard is that they were formed by criminals given a chance to redeem themselves in battle. This would also explain why they didn't have proper equipment, and thus had to rely on drugs to make them more resilient to damage.
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Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2012, 05:22:47 pm »
+2
franzi doesn't like to watch porn.

Jeez you kids, one day when you enter a real woman it will all become clear, you may even respec on cRPG and stop being an archer too once you do the deed!
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Offline Adamar

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2012, 05:41:19 pm »
0
Actually most crpg players are infs.

Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2012, 05:53:52 pm »
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Actually most crpg players are infs.

Yeh, the ones you could probably enjoy having a beer with irl.
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Offline Vingnir the Wanderer

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2012, 12:37:52 am »
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Right, except that the first time berserks are mentioned is in a poem written by a guy known for inventing words to make his poems more poetic. Then they aren't mentioned again in a looooooong time.

The most credible explanation for berserks i've heard is that they were formed by criminals given a chance to redeem themselves in battle. This would also explain why they didn't have proper equipment, and thus had to rely on drugs to make them more resilient to damage.

Yeah, you have some valid points 4sure. I think we can probably agree, that they were exaggerated if not completely fabricated.

The whole outlaw status too, sounds somewhat believable, especially when you put several of the saga's sources on them together, and look at them. I've had that thought myself tbh.  All though, outlaws where not denied weapons, so i'm not sure there's a connotation between the outlawry and the lite-armed situation. I might add it may have something to do with the difference between upperclass military fighting, and lower class thuggery/grappling so to speak,  and how to kill someone versus how to form a battle line and hope you survive... Many men, (and probably men that where outlawed) where outlawed, for local killings, and of lower social status, perhaps the fighting style demanded an amount of freedom of movement not found with a coat of mail on?  Anyway, interesting to think about...

I just read the wiki, i hadnt before, interesting, as it refers to what both of us are saying, rather than one idea against the other.


Honestly, I thought originally that you were saying they didnt exist at all, but I read you wrong  :P
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 01:28:36 am by Vingnir the Wanderer »

Offline rufio

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #58 on: June 25, 2012, 01:01:40 am »
0
i wear lordly lammelar gauntlets, nordic warlord helmet, lordly heavy kuyak, rus splinted greaves / mail chausses, a mw german gs and a plain cav shield. THIS is crpg, not a historycally accurate game atall howevermuch u want it. iam  nord! and my kuyak keeps me warm
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Offline zagibu

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2012, 08:42:22 pm »
+2
It also keeps you homosexual. Well worth it in these homophobic times.
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 Why am I beswung by sharpe and pointed utensyls?