Author Topic: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...  (Read 5522 times)

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Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2012, 12:46:29 pm »
0
Back during my last 30/9 2h gen (6 or 7th gen, I think), I ran around with a Winged Great Helmet and a Heavy Kuyak. It was as historically inaccurate as it was stylish.

Kudos for acknowledging that.

Which helmet was used with a Kuyak then?



Don't worry, I have been busy over last 2 days getting screens of those that are getting it right and those getting it wrong.  I will publish this library later this week.  About 4 from 40-50 people are wearing accurate helmets.

http://www.xenophon-mil.org/rushistory/medievalarmor/ 

Look at

helmet.htm

and

russ13.htm (Kuyak)

What is this obsession with taking germanic Klappvisier, you're not "cool" or "badass" you just look like a joke.  Plus it's usually those that, i've gotta say, tend to not exactly be fond of german history that tend to take it...megalol.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 12:54:22 pm by polkafranzi »
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Offline zottlmarsch

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2012, 06:51:44 pm »
+1
Which helmet was used with a Kuyak then?


any of these RUSSIAN helmets (note: not a Klappvisier, Nordic helmet or Barbutte in sight)



Armies of Medieval Russia 750-1250
(click to show/hide)

The thing is, most of the in game russian helmets, (tagancha's, rus helm, nikolskoe and Novogrod) are pretty cool and are of a high quality, dunno why these kuyak wearers choose not to wear them and go for something that a 14th century Knight from Germany would wear instead??? I mean I am no brilliant historian but didn't the Germans and Russians hate eachother back then and was at war (with the Teutonic knights and Alexander Nevsky etc) Its a bit like a Millwall F.C player turning up to a match wearing a West ham Jersey.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 07:23:37 pm by zottlmarsch »
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Offline Vibe

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2012, 07:12:01 pm »
+1
Can you blame them? Kuyaks are still one of the most detailed, beautifully made armors.

Offline zottlmarsch

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2012, 07:21:00 pm »
+3
Yes and Narf made them as part of his awesome russian pack which includes all the helmets that should be worn with them.

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 10:07:07 pm by zottlmarsch »
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Offline Largg

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2012, 09:52:41 pm »
+2
I blame game of thrones and the North. Ned Stark to be precise.

Offline Penitent

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2012, 11:08:39 pm »
-1
All those helmets look...well...
They don't look as cool as the kuyaks we'll just say that.

I try to be period-precise though.  I like the looks when the armors/helms match correctly for period/culture.

Offline zagibu

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2012, 11:14:48 pm »
0
Back during my last 30/9 2h gen (6 or 7th gen, I think), I ran around with a Winged Great Helmet and a Heavy Kuyak. It was as historically inaccurate as it was stylish.

Kuyak is never stylish.
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Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2012, 11:29:41 pm »
-2
How I see it (and correct me if i'm wrong), is that all these pricks who couple Kuyak/Rus scale with German helmets (like Klappvisier), think that they are some kind of Jason X tough guy, and that the Klappvisier makes them hardcore irl (what. a. fucking. fail.)...i'm 100% that's what it is, although they would never admit it, i'm still 100%.

My favourite is the Teutonic Winged Great Helmet coupled with Kuyak trololo look that some guy from Greys is wearing.  Mr. Cool.fail*
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Offline Vingnir the Wanderer

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2012, 12:22:46 am »
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Your just bieng funny right,? cuz for a fairly balanced pre 32 build, (and you must know this by now too)

I believe, unloomed, the kuyak and those helmets are kinda in a sweet spot for 'ideal damage reduction vs cost & weight'

I mean, lets say I've got my kuyak, and found that it does the job, but i need a 50-54 point helmet (from my observations) to really be in an ideal place with my build - whats a barbarian to do? 


Also, as the crpg mod has all these cultures constantly fighting each other, who is to say, that the kuyak wearer, didnt kill some guy with that helmet, pick it off him, and deam that it was better, and continued to wear it?  (Unrealistic perhaps in an civilized army, BUT possibly acceptable in a merc/raiders/horde of barbarians/etc situation? afterall, however much I would like it myself, we arent across the board representing nation states realistically or even irl battlefield conditions in general for that matter)

Also take into account, that the kuyak itself is a 'guess' of how some plates found I believe in Rus territory, may have been used - its not a historically verified body armor as presented, based on a historic piece. (as far as I know)

or it could be grandaddy's kuyak, and a 'modern to the time/location' helmet. 

I know its silly to answer a trolling question in this length, but I dont see it that way, if i'm also enjoying the banter and making a point of some kind, heh.



-That all said, I wear a kuyak all the time, but 90% of the time or more, wear an 'appropriate helmet'. In fact, i may go so far as to loom one of the russian helmets, just so I can have a heavier helmet that looks 'right', but when i see  kuyak and a heavy helmet, maybe its slightly annoying, but its alot less rediculous than other combo's and even armor pieces themselves, that I see everyday on crpg.

And bye the way, since the kuyak is Rus, and the Rus where very influenced, and ruled for some time by scandinavians, the Nordic helm of any level, is perfectly appropriate. Atleast thats the way I see it, and i'm pretty sticky on the 'historic' factor compared to most.


Blah blah blah lol
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 01:39:57 am by Vingnir the Wanderer »

Offline zagibu

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2012, 11:20:37 pm »
+1
I mean, lets say I've got my kuyak, and found that it does the job, but i need a 50-54 point helmet (from my observations) to really be in an ideal place with my build - whats a barbarian to do? 

Don't be a munchkin and wear a barbarian helmet? Also, Kuyak is not a barbarian armor.
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Offline Vingnir the Wanderer

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2012, 12:13:37 am »
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Don't be a munchkin and wear a barbarian helmet? Also, Kuyak is not a barbarian armor.

Well, Like i said, I'm not your munchkin, cuz I DO use the historically correct helms qwith my armor often enough.

depends on your definition of 'barbarian'...?

I mean thats a very undefined term, that essentially means originally for/from the greeks, anyone who is not part of Mediterranean high culture, and for the christians everyone who is not of a Abrahamic religion dominated society.

Truth be told, there really isnt much in the way of 'barbarian armor'.

Thing is though, people adapt it and other pieces piece-meal to make their own personal or even clan look, with no other interest than a fiction, rather than a strict adherance to history.

I disagree about saying the Kuyak is definitely not a barbarian armor,  our Kuyak models are based on a couple metal plates they found in the ground, with no real indicator of how they were attached to the leather (accept for a couple holes in the plates), and no indicator that they were part of an state supplied army via agricultural surplus. Plus, 'barbarian' is a shitty term that is basically snobbishness towards foreigners that you deem not as civilized as thou, but, I was using it in the 'modern fictional' sense, which is still defined by individual perception of what is, and is not 'barbarian'.

I agree with your sentiment for myself, and how I load out, but, if everyone stuck to wearing only the appropriate./uniformed look, we would see alot less variation, and thus, alot less uniqueness.

I do agree though, wearing a kuyak and a heavy helmet strikes me more like min-maxing, than respect for the cultural pieces, but the kuyak in our game is a speculation, not a historical piece like the gothic plate etc.

IN FACT, its arguable, if you put an early 13th century full/bucket helm with it like the topfhelms, it might be very like WESTERN early heavy armors that were transitioning from mail to plate/partial plate,/ fyrd high level individually owned armor BEFORE the widespread use of the standardized surcoats/gambisons, that we havent found an example of yet in the west, because some of the other things like a brigantine did the same job, but better, and its reminents meanwhile got used for some other metal consuming project in the mean time.

Also, whether we like it or not, the kuyaks get alot of use by non-historic fantasy types, because they look rough, and have good numbers.  If there was more in that range for selection, by those doing Viking/Rus/'barbarian', etc, that wasnt Rus, well then they wouldnt get as much use with 'artistic license'.  But as it is right now, there isnt much else in those number ranges that are an optional acceptable look for those that are doing the 'barbarian thing' available to buy for use, and still conform with the game mechanics of loading yourself out in a competative manner.  So until theres some more options that look equally rough and barbaric, and competative with someone who says 'Oh I'm rping milanese/late Western etc, so I get everything thats competative, now put that leather hat on scrub, and die to game mechanics that dont take into account, true mobility and fatigue!' this is what your going to get.

« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 01:42:56 am by Vingnir the Wanderer »

Offline Tot.

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2012, 01:23:23 am »
+1
Worrying about outfit match-up is rather silly considering that 50% of cRPG population uses semi-fantasy two-handed swords.
Mods compatible with cRPG. New crosshairs, textures, sounds, yay.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2012, 03:26:19 am »
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The arabian guard armor spam or vaegir war mask spam are kinda bad too.

Offline Elindor

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2012, 06:47:25 am »
+3
I mean, lets say I've got my kuyak, and found that it does the job, but i need a 50-54 point helmet (from my observations) to really be in an ideal place with my build - whats a barbarian to do? 

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Almost as much armor as the Klappvisier and historically accurate with kuyak  :mrgreen:
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Offline zottlmarsch

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Re: Items that were never, ever, worn with a...
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2012, 07:58:21 am »
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Almost as much armor as the Klappvisier and historically accurate with kuyak  :mrgreen:

+1
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