Heavy Armor thoughts

[BlueKnight]

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Hi folks.

cRPG being under heavy revision, mechanics get changed, there s a lot happening.

Thanks to the devs at this place.

Now, one thing that I want to sort out:

No topic for useless lobbying or realism discussion, please

You choose your armor according to your preferences and needs on the battlefield.

Heavy armor is supposed to protect you better. Heavy is defined weight 20 + for me.

Mostly you ll add heavy gloves and helmets.

All in all a heavy loadout, accounting for 30 or more weight (allrdy considering multipliers for head and hands)

High weight, high upkeep, higher protection.
We can agree that there is some benefits and reasons to choose heavy armor

WHY I WRITE THIS:

With all the supposed benefits, one thing doesnt make any sense:

The randomness in the effective values your armor will protect you.

In 69 bodyarmor I sometimes absorb 3, sometimes 7 hits.

Speedmodifiers, sure.
Damagemodifiers, sure.

All taken into account, yet still, the factor of randomness is too high.

I am fine with the downsides, higher upkeep, slower speed etc.
I dont ask for an immortal super plate warrior.

All I ask for is a general change / revision of how your protection is calculated into something more reliable (less random).

Could devs consider it, ppl. make statements (civilized) about that randomness?

vMega... you talk about randomness! finally somebody!
I will tell you 4 stories.

1st - I had 65 body armour 57 head armour and 55 leg armour 20 str and 3 or 4 IF and got 1hitted by guy with flamberge and 9PS... Even "The_Moster" with his 12 or 13 PS can't 1hit me... -> randomness

2nd - It's siege. I am on the walls I get shot and I lose 25% hp, then I get HS from not big distance from sb with +0 Longbow and +0 Bodkins probably because after the HS I had still like 30% hp and if that guy shot me again with his longbow and bodkins (both +0 I bet) I would be still alive with like 1-4 hp. I had again 57 head armour 65 body armour and 55 leg armour and 18 str and 6IF

3rd - I have 20+ str and 4+IF and again 57-65-55 and Hetman 1shot me from his +3hornbow with +3 bodkins and 7 PD

4th - story I had again 18str and 6IF or something like that 57-65-55 armour and I got shot by Feddy with his +3 Horn bow and (probably+3) bodkins from medium distance if I remember properly and I lost 50% hp

Please reveal if 2 more PD makes such a difference or was it just the randomness of armour/damage?

Edit: Also I got 1shotted from light crossbow with my 6IF 57-65-55

change the random amount of armour to 70-100% pleaseee. Sometimes I feel like if the game had no rules for dmg/protection.

[CrazyCracka420]

I think most of the people hit the nail on the head.

You say sometimes you take 3 hits, sometimes 7.  It's not random, where are you getting hit those 7 times versus those 3 times (head, body or legs, and how much head body and leg armor did you have).  What weapon type are they using (blunt, pierce, cut), how much base damage does the weapon do?  How much momentum did they have in their swing (speed bonus)?  How much power strike did the person have, how much WPF do they have for that weapon type?  How much did their armor weigh, bringing down their WPF (if they are lightly armored, they are going to hit harder and faster, faster = more damage by the way also).  How long did they chamber their weapon before swinging, if it was .6 seconds then it was as hard as it could hit (assuming max speed bonus), maybe the time you were hit 7 times they held their swings too long or not long enough...


So many variables come into play.

[Vodner]

It's not random, where are you getting hit those 7 times versus those 3 times (head, body or legs, and how much head body and leg armor did you have).

Soak and reduce are heavily randomized (55% random). In addition, damage itself has 10% variability.

More detailed information here

[CrazyCracka420]

Soak and reduce are heavily randomized (55% random). In addition, damage itself has 10% variability.

More detailed information here

Maybe I wasn't super articulate.  There are lots of variables involved that are random, but there's lots of variables that are static as well.  There's at least 8-10 variables involved in determining how much damage your receive from a hit.

[Grumbs]

It just depends whether its "randomness" thats influenced by a players actions or if its a simple toss of a dice. Now your armour is either 45% - 100% effective, which to me isn't in line with randomness brought on by speed, where you hit, powerstrike etc. If you see a tin can you should be able to reliably judge the damage you will do, or as a tin can you should know roughly how much leeway you have with taking hits. It might need some balancing though if heavy armour was more reliable

[Ronin]

The "Randomness" thing what makes the game more hard to guess, and brings more depth in it. Before marching to the battle, you can never know what will happen. So it must stay in my opinion.

Armor is not a weapon, it is a precaution.

[Elindor]

There is a pretty decent dmg randomizer as I understand it form Walt's research...applied after other factors.

Some people have complained about it before.

[BlueKnight]

The "Randomness" thing what makes the game more hard to guess, and brings more depth in it. Before marching to the battle, you can never know what will happen. So it must stay in my opinion.

Armor is not a weapon, it is a precaution.

And then 1 team wins 30-0 when it comes to tickets, next round there is 0-25... fuck randomising.

[Ronin]

And then 1 team wins 30-0 when it comes to tickets, next round there is 0-25... fuck randomising.

It's not THAT random you smartass and you know that.

[v/onMega]

Some ppl. know what I am trying to point out. (BlueKnight, Leesin,Grumbs)
It indeed is the difference in soak etc.  being 55% that doesnt make sense to me.
I play long enough to estimate what hit me, amount of speedbonus etc. and even with that I often wonder badly.

So no need for explaining basics, thanks, but the question remains:

Why do we have such a big random number, rendering heavy armor useless too often?
I wouldn´t even mind if the upkeep is higher accroding to the changes of this value :-)

[rustyspoon]

I can see why people would want randomness on soak/reduce removed, but if you do that, cut will be even worse. Blunt/pierce damage is already FAR superior to cut. This would create an even larger gap between cut and everything else. It's not THAT big of a deal for 2h/poles, but any change to soak/reduce values REALLY hurts 1h swords.

[Ad1no]

save crpg

buff armor

nerf ranged

[Grumbs]

I wouldn't mind seeing all armour take some nerf (-10 or so) if damage was less random, or more movement encumbrance for heavy armour

[MadeForFighting]

(...)in real combat(...)

Sorry, had to stop reading after this.

[Leshma]

Heavy armor is great, but only if you're str build with lot of hp.