Rage about Looms/Str

[rustyspoon]

Surviving 5-7 hits is pretty absurd. Mistakes should be punished. If somebody misses 2-3 blocks, then they should be dead. Being unable to consistently block shouldn't be an option, unless you have a shield (even then, some sort of manual blocking system for reduced shield damage would make things more interesting).

I feel that combat would be a lot more exciting and skill based if you were always potentially 1-3 mistakes away from death. A single moment of inattention or panic would kill you, with no chance to recover.

That's why I've switched to agi-heavy builds. I just find it to be a hell of a lot more fun when you move really fast and are always inches away from death.

[Zisa]

Valiant of you to bring it up.. we know how it will end.. been there.

Anyhow..
Armor.. total points for a full set ? It will be more then a melee weapon.
ranged+ ammo - more then a melee weapon.

I think I'll loom milanese for my low INT str build - it really is lulzy when one technique is to just take a beating till the lightweight makes a mistake then pound him into goo.

[Auphilia]

I agree that looms should be aesthetic only, and just have a slightly more prestigious look.

A temporary solution would be to increase upkeep as appropriate for heirloomed items.

For example a Lordly Heraldic Mail With Tabard (40 body armor + 5) would cost as much to repair as Banded Armor (45 armor), maybe a little bit less. Then players would still get a small speed bonus for using lighter armor, but wouldn't have such an advantage as before. They could also wear armor that appeals to them aesthetically and still have a desirable defense value.

It makes sense to me that armor/weapons that were made by master smiths should cost a bit more to repair than any old dusty sword or plate.

[BashirKhan]

Looms pretty much drive the community, they keep people playing for a goal, It's also one of the things that distinguishes crpg from native. Besides lets be honest you would have to convince about 90% of the community that they should not use heirloomed items anymore. And I can guarantee that won't happen.

[Andswaru]

As far i can see the first posters point is, that he doesnt wanna grind from lvl 1 again with a loompoint hed rather stay a high level by respecing at 30 so he can gank the low levels who have decided to invest time into a loompoint. Nice. 

[Miwiw]

Well why do looms even have to exist in the first place? Just to grind? I just play this game for fun, and I have over 1000 hours (o god..) logged into it. I normally just respec after I hit level 30. I do have 1 masterwork I've just begun to use and a 1+ item but still enjoy this game everyday. Until someone ruins my fun with stacked looms! At least I make the game fun for everyone else. I'll just die in 1 hit after hitting you 5 times so everyone wins!
Looms should just get a new model, like from that heirloom pack.

That's the thing mate. You want to stay higher level, that is fine. But of course you don't have any loom then. That is fine as well. I don't want myself to stay high level all the time. That is getting encouraged by the loompoints. If everyone was about level 30-35 all the time, fights would be different on the servers.
I wouldn't retire just to let my items look a bit different. That wouldn't be worth the time imo. I would rather pay some € for it like in other F2P MMOs.
But just saying looms are op and saying at the same time that you don't gonna ever retire but rather respec at level 30 doesn't make your case looks any good.
That is like saying, "I am level 10, you shouldnt be level 20!".
I can see your point, if stacked looms give a good buff but I always saw looms as some goal since they're in cRPG. I would gladly enjoy the game without as I rather see looms as items giving me less weight for the same defense (as armor for example), or more damage for less upkeep.
I can for example use my +3 mail shirt with 42 body armor and 11 leg armor for 9,6 weight and 259 upkeep instead of a +0 light kuyak with 1 less leg armor, 214 more upkeep and 3,3 more weight after playing for about 6-7 weeks for 3 loompoints and 3 retirements.

The loompoints are also a reason to play a bit more than usual. If there wasn't a goal but just fun I would play a bit less. It's the same as in MMOs, "I get xp, I should do xxx amount of that today, then Im fine".
It does of course has its pros and cons but in this case, I see more pros for myself. I would of course also play without looms however.

[oprah_winfrey]

Anyhow..
Armor.. total points for a full set ? It will be more then a melee weapon.
ranged+ ammo - more then a melee weapon.

There is a case to be made that melee players benefit more from loomed armor then archers do.

[[ptx]]

A guy in full loomed plate set with high IF being able to take 5+ hits from a triple loomed 2h sword at 7-8PS is highly ridiculous. See Ivani4.

[Herkkutatti666]

Buff looms

[Phew]

Looming your weapon to +3 is the equivalent to adding 1-1.5 skill points in power strike, depending on weapon base damage and type. Not a huge deal.

Looming your body armor and gauntlets each to +3 is equivalent to adding 5-8 skill points in Ironflesh. Very significant, but in reality it probably means you can take one more hit.

If you are fighting a fully loomed level 34, for instance, and you are a level 30 with no heirlooms, it's equivalent to fighting someone with about 20 more skill points than you. So equivalent to fighting a level 30 when you are level 23. I think most people kill lots of level 30s when they are level 23. It may take a while, but if you block their swings and they don't block yours, then you are going to win no matter who you are fighting. That's the cool thing about this game, as opposed to WoW or something where gear/levels decide the fight, not player skill.

[PieParadox]

I'm not making myself clear. I don't care if someone is lvl 20 with looms. I'm pointing out that many many players have been playing this game for more than a year and have full sets of looms that they have already. Many players will not retire their mains again, due to the obvious reason of having their looms and being fed from alts. Also, many players also play strategus, and having a higher level player as a main will obviously be a large bonus in strat too.

For many there are no cons to getting looms.

[Phew]

For many there are no cons to getting looms.

That's like saying "There are no cons to getting money".

If they are playing their alts to feed gold to their main, how is that a problem? The alt that you face on the battlefield is much easier to kill than that level 34 main with full looms, correct? Anything that encourages people to play their alts more actually evens the playing field overall.

With the exception of crushthrough (don't get me started), looms don't magically make swings unblockable.  Skill and teamwork both have a much bigger impact on the battle outcome. Should those be nerfed also?

[PieParadox]

I'm a very teamwork oriented player. I play most classes including support polearm. Removing polestagger actually buffs good players with looms a lot imo. Not being polestaggerned allows them to freely keep swinging.

Like you said, if they're playing on an alt, the playing field should be more level. Great. But eventually theyll play on their main. And many people do already have full looms and are content with just playing their main.

edit: A thing I didn't really address but was actually the main focus of this thread was the stacking of looms and strength together. A fully loomed agility player isn't as dangerous as a strength oriented one. I'm pretty sketchy on this subject though.

[Zisa]

(click to show/hide)

I'm a very teamwork oriented player. I play most classes including support polearm. Removing polestagger actually buffs good players with looms a lot imo. Not being polestaggerned allows them to freely keep swinging.

Like you said, if they're playing on an alt, the playing field should be more level. Great. But eventually theyll play on their main. And many people do already have full looms and are content with just playing their main.

edit: A thing I didn't really address but was actually the main focus of this thread was the stacking of looms and strength together. A fully loomed agility player isn't as dangerous as a strength oriented one. I'm pretty sketchy on this subject though.

It's the nature of the str v agi argument.

The malus you get from playing a str build - you really have to hope your team knows instinctively the gaggle formation. Once you are commited to a certain position you are pretty much there. Um, that's it, though you might end up in trouble vs a real fast lightweight, or at end game vs a bunch of ranged units.

The negatives for an agi build, well it is a longish list. It might benefit from upcoming changes to wpf curve. Everyone knows it is 'harder' to play, but that's part of the appeal.

[Phew]

edit: A thing I didn't really address but was actually the main focus of this thread was the stacking of looms and strength together. A fully loomed agility player isn't as dangerous as a strength oriented one. I'm pretty sketchy on this subject though.

I dunno, a 12/27 guy with a +3 Steel Pick and 180 wpf is probably the most terrifying opponent I can imagine. Maybe some 39/3 tin can with a +3 Flamberge one-shots you, but he was probably going to one-shot you even without the looms. Then again, a guy in plate with low athletics is pretty easy to avoid. The 9Ath steel pick guy, not so much.