Buff hoplites/hybrids

[bruce]

Bump.

Ranged weak -> too many cav riding around.

Buff hybrid hoplites to stop the cav.

Buff ranged then.

[Leshma]

Strong ranged fucks up experience for almost everyone else. Also the slightest buff increase their numbers exponentially. I'll rather to see further hybrid archer buff than increase in bow damage output.

And stop asking for ranged buff and take some time to get back in the game. You used to be great glaive fighter, now I see you rolling some lame builds like HX...

[Darkoveride]

Ranged doesnt need a buff on the whole, more a re balancing crossbows are have too much accuracy over range. Archers need to invest in more powerdraw,by the look of things as i rarely die to bowfire anymore can take maybe 5 to 8 shots. the few heavy draw players there are can bring me down in 2.

 

[bruce]

Bah, don't see much point playing infantry to be honest.

You used to be able to roll with spear+shield+glaive which was powerful - you had archer defense and horse defense to some extent (crafty lancers have no problem with this, but still everyone runs into a spear now and then), now you can't.

Which is not that much of a problem in itself, except...  cavalry got buffed since I left (heirloom changes? great, now an arabian which is virtually impossible to shoot anyway when championed has 115 hp, same with courser, both survive a MW arbalest+MW bolts in the flank), then the stupid lancing angle nerf (which again is a buff to inf-killers to be honest, since the old lancers used to kill 1h cavalry and other lancers much easier), ranged nerfs...

Archers got turned into useless (for purposes of supporting teammates by killing horses and such, they are still very useful for killing infantry by headshots and staggering them and such) agiwhores which can't properly fend off cavalry but can run from any infantryman indefinitely and kite, cavalry got it's only real counter nerfed (which is ranged, like it or not, on an agile horse you can pick and choose what to engage), basically, don't know what the devs were thinking.

No amount of spears is going to stop the cavalry horde. Buy an agile horse, wait until infantryman is engaged, attack, if you see something pointy, pull back at last moment, if infantryman releases attack accelerate 0-100 and stab him in face.

What is even sillier is that then they try to balance it out with maps, introducing all sorts of idiotic townmaps which lag and turn into circuit running circus. Instead of giving more open plains and then rebalancing things so they work on open plains.


Maybe the solution is in halving horse HP across the board since ranged damage seems about halved. And before you all start crying, I was playing horseman when an archer oneshot your horse. It was frustrating often, yes. But that frustration kept everyone from derping around on horseback. Maybe then we could have some nice open field maps again.

[BlindGuy]

Meh, the 3 long spears (longspear, pike, bamboo) have never failed me when it comes to horses. Sure, first time you face nice lancer, he pulls the decell, provoke spear, then stab. But every trick works on everyone once.

As archer, horses are the one thing I have ZERO issues slaying, they are large targets, go down in about same number of hits as infantry, and cannot instantly change direction.

But you are right, not many recent changes have been for the better of balance, just making each class more limited so everyone plays it more and more like a douche.

[bruce]

Meh, the 3 long spears (longspear, pike, bamboo) have never failed me when it comes to horses. Sure, first time you face nice lancer, he pulls the decell, provoke spear, then stab. But every trick works on everyone once.

Was more reffering to the warspear which can be used with shield and warspear+shield+glaive was overall a nice combo which could fend off most horses, be used to approach archers and fight them, and so on. Bamboo was usable with shield back then but it was incredibly ugly and pulled out of hammerspace and I never liked it... longspear didn't exist, and pulling pikes out of hammerspace was not my thing either (although it was an effective cavalry surprise to magically conjure a pike and stab the horse; at least until they started recognizing you)

Regardless, the OP's idea is to enable this type of outfit (warspear/fork/etc) + shield + polearm or 2h again, but I don't think that is the solution to cavalry hordes.

As for shooting horses, ye you can do it, but normally if I'm riding a champion courser it'll take anywhere from 4-6 arrows to go down, depending on speed and such. This is quite a lot, given you can ride away very fast. Riders with high shield skill also pick up some arrows with the shield typically, especially on smaller horses, due to the nature of the shield forcefield.

[Sultan Eren]

We don't need no awlpike, just give us that turn-thrust back. My pike doesn't hit the enemy even if i hit.

[Leshma]

Ranged "fixed", cav status the same.

Reason: most archers don't shoot at horses because that's not the right way to pad your k/d.

Solution: buff hybrid hoplites!

[bruce]

Ranged shoot horses. It is not uncommon to finish a round with 2-3 arrows sticking into my horse. As long as you don't get into a fight with a horse-shooting HA or run in front of a archer line, or charge a longbowman/crossbowman directly, even the lighter horses are totally fine for taking a few hits. Better horses like coursers and up can take quite a few hits provided you are not charging said archer/we.

It is more tempting (and frankly useful) to shoot the rider, anyway, unless he has a shield.

[bruce]

If you want to make cavalry less prevalent, the only workable way is for ranged to kill horses significantly easier; if this would buff HA/HX too much vs other cav you could just make HA skill be one in 9 agi instead one in 6.

Combine that with more open maps and perhaps reduce the ability of archers to kite, and you have a much healthier game overall.

Hoplites could be buffed in regards to fighting infantry, but spear and shield is not a magical cavalry cure, counters were always ranged and other cav.

[Leshma]

Everyone wants to kill, to get that last sho/hit at enemy.

Most archers don't shoot at horses! Because they are fast and can took a lot of arrows from medium distance. Cavalry rarely comes near to archers, unless they are backstabbing.

[Ronin]

Well, I'm playing as hoplite now. It is just unique, and relies on teamwork to be effective. But it is not effective in 1v1 fights too. I use: Shield + One Handed + Spear (ashwood, preferably)

It is just a different class that requires a unique playstyle. And it certainly doesn't need a buff to be popular, but encouragement.

Edit: I don't know if you folks will like it or not, but I'm working on a hoplite guide at the moment. So that could be the encouragement hoplites need

[Sultan Eren]

Well, I'm playing as hoplite now. It is just unique, and relies on teamwork to be effective. But it is not effective in 1v1 fights too. I use: Shield + One Handed + Spear (ashwood, preferably)

It is just a different class that requires a unique playstyle. And it certainly doesn't need a buff to be popular, but encouragement.

Edit: I don't know if you folks will like it or not, but I'm working on a hoplite guide at the moment. So that could be the encouragement hoplites need

+1. I can help the guide Ronin.

[bruce]

Everyone wants to kill, to get that last sho/hit at enemy.

Most archers don't shoot at horses! Because they are fast and can took a lot of arrows from medium distance. Cavalry rarely comes near to archers, unless they are backstabbing.

If it took less arrows from a medium distance they'd be more inclined to shoot at horses. Although they do like to take a potshot at horses now and then. As do some crossbowmen. Most prefer to shoot rider instead, if he is shieldless, since it gets you a kill, takes less hits, and you don't have to deal with an angry infantryman.

But look at the cav on open maps, most go down by either other cavalrymen or ranged. Sure, someone now and then runs into a pike or spear or 2h sword, but this isn't a hard "counter" and eventually infantry will be distracted by other infantry, ranged, other cavalry and all other threats a poor footman has to worry about, and ripe for backstabbing.

And yeah, you're sort of right about buffing ranged overall being bad, but making horses less durable against it then they are now (I feel the balance has shifted far too much towards the horseman) would help reducing the number of horsemen more then giving infantry easier to access spears (which isn't bad in itself, I guess).

[Elmetiacos]

Do NOT buff hybrids. This will lead to more "and a crossbow too" characters and make the game more of a FPS, with the rest of us forced to hide behind buildings and walls or wait with shields raised until one or other side wins the archer and crossbow exchange. We had that situation some months ago and it wasn't much fun - don't bring it back.