Nerf Archery

[Gurnisson]

Lucky you I can't find that damn stats thread.

Btw, with looms being as common as it is nowadays, I always compare classes with looms in mind. Everyone knows that archery is underpowered without looms. With looms though, 6 PD and rus + bod deal massive amount of damage, more so than most one-handers, two-handers and polearms at 6 ps.

If you're talking about server statistic, then throwing and xbows deals less damage, but all melee classes deals more. It's outdated, so dunno how it compares to the server nowadays, but here it is

[Adamar]

Thanks, I wouldn't mind seeing it updated too, since back then people where also whining about archery.

[Joker86]

I think this was some time after that heavy archer nerf. For some time we almost didn't have any archers at all, but the numbers kept growing lately, and I think we could get higher damage numbers again, if we had new stats. But cmp would need to post them, so perhaps someone who is liked by cmp could ask him kindly? 

Still I just want to mention that numbers are one thing, but the subjective perception of the players should matter, too.

P.S.: I think it's quite depressing to see the low variety of items used on the servers. 25% of all damage is dealt by 2hd, and 20% of it by Danish. Over 60% of all 2hd damage dealt comes from only 7 different weapons. And there are 38 2hd weapons in total. Which means 20% of the 2hd weapons deal 60% of the damage.

Polearms is even more extreme. The first three weapons (of 48) deal over 45% of all damage.

This confirms me in my opinion that upkeep is uncapable of providing a working and fair item balance.   

[Lichen]

Haha what a joke... I actually went STF with mw bodkin arrows and mw longbow and PD 13!!! and only times the increased damage was noticeable was on point blank and with peasants.

Arrows lose damage over distance very fast.

Cut the bullshit.

You can't have effective 13 pd, 9 is the most unless you are past level 30. Arrows lose damage over distance very fast? I suppose that depends on the distance and how much pd you have. Mine seemed to still be quite effective at long range. But I do notice on a daily basis melee players finding being shot to pieces by archers and crossbows very much unfun. Whether they suck or not really isn't the issue since this happens to even the best melee'rs. The thing is if a very good player chooses to be an archer there isn't much even the best melee player can do about that to win because chances are he's going to lose vs such an archer most of the time.

[Gravoth_iii]

doesnt archery need wpf/pd just like throwing? so 13 pd isnt possible with that amount of wpf?

[Moncho]

I just tried it again, I noticed the message of "low proficiency", but I can still pick up arrows?

Even with that message you can pick arrows, the only difference is the effective power draw is reduced and accuracy should be shit

[sjarken]

Cut the slack.. arhers need to be nerfed or find some magic way to reduce archers. Myself i am mele and like a lot of other players i play this game for the graphics.... -.-   
The mele combat system is what makes it fun. Now servers are filled with archers, they are so damn many. Playing on eu4 or eu1 when they are low populated u might find teams that are 50-90% ranged. Yes it sucks rly hard to camp behind that tree/rock until they have raped eachother and last players will kiterape u.

Reduce the amount of archers.
Love Sjarken

[CrazyCracka420]

Archers have been nerfed to fuck compared to a year or even year and a half ago.  In our strategus battles they typically make up less than 10% of the players we have on either team.  That is pretty low considering any commander would likely want 25-33% of his army made up of archers (I know I can never get as many as I want). 

Archer's don't need to be nerfed, infantry's awareness/teamwork needs a massive buff.  Fight with teammates, stay behind your shielders, protect your own archers so they can shoot the enemy archers.

Most infantry that complain about archers are people who think they tactically can just run around in the open and not have to worry about what the enemy is doing.

Everything has strengths and weaknesses in this game, if archers are your bane, then you need to change something up.

[sjarken]

Archers have been nerfed to fuck compared to a year or even year and a half ago.  In our strategus battles they typically make up less than 10% of the players we have on either team.  That is pretty low considering any commander would likely want 25-33% of his army made up of archers (I know I can never get as many as I want). 

Archer's don't need to be nerfed, infantry's awareness/teamwork needs a massive buff.  Fight with teammates, stay behind your shielders, protect your own archers so they can shoot the enemy archers.

Most infantry that complain about archers are people who think they tactically can just run around in the open and not have to worry about what the enemy is doing.

Everything has strengths and weaknesses in this game, if archers are your bane, then you need to change something up.

Are you joking or are you mentally handicapped?
Atlest i dont care if u dont get your best archer% at strat, im sure ppl mostly give a shit. You cant base your argument on strat when most ppl play on servers.
Random pug teams will never fight like a guild...................

--->Everything has strengths and weaknesses in this game, if archers are your bane, then you need to change something up. =
 What class are you since you are so pro that u dont feel the 110+ arrows coming at you 20sec after the game has started.
Hide behind shielders? NEVER!
Protect Archers? HELL NO! die all of u. I feel the urge to kill/tk all of you wannabe legolas.

[sjarken]

http://forum.meleegaming.com/profile/?area=showposts;u=7438

Every single post he's made is against range class, lol

p.s. Ok maybe not every single, but a lot of posts are rage against range class

p.p.s. Go to melee server

I klicked the link. Not mutch on ranged posts... -.- but sure iv posted vs ranged coz it is irritating the way the game is going now.

[Moncho]

random amount of crap mixed together with quite a dose of insults

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is an example of why I gave up in this game's community very long ago. With mentalities like these, of course archers are a pain in the arse...
One single player will always be countered, whereas if a few play together, it is very hard to counter it. But I am a 2h/pole/shielder melee hero, I charge by myself into a group of 3 people and expect to kill them all, and if I do not, the class that killed me is OP.
If you guys actually put a little bit of thinking into the game, you might enjoy the strategies, and actually do something good for a change within the game. If you want an endless melee, go to duel, I do not see many archers there. But if you go to battle, learn once and for all for fucks sake that you will be shot at, you will be lanced, you will be slashed. You just have to adapt to survive. If you feel that you do not have enough reach, you get a longer weapon, if you get shot, you either dodge or get a shield or do one of the many things garison mentions in his thread, here.

So adapt or die. The reason why I see a lot of archers lately I think is because with the utter lack of teamwork nowadays on the servers, it is easier to pew pew. As an archer, you can hit a much larger area, not needing to be in a big angry mob to be effective, and you will usually not receive fire as a lot of the ranged fires for the blob (so that in case they miss they might hit someone else). Same with cav, against unorganised groups it is extremely effective, but against organised forces both ranged and cavalry suffer...
It is just another element of gameplay, and should not be made awful just because you do not like it. Adapt or die (Darwin anyone?). First rule of them all: Common sense (which unfortunately is extremely uncommon despite its name)

Edit: also because of how smart this community is, useful contributing posts like joker's (sometimes too long, but almost always he says something, defends his opinion, and has usually good points) get very few + whereas stupid repetitive posts, along the lines of "nerf archery/cav" mostly get huge negative votes (yes, I am looking at you, tzarofQQya, and others)...

But well, I guess I am trying to reason with people who have already made their minds and prefer to be a hero

[CrazyCracka420]

"I want to be able to rambo charge at archers and kill them, but they are able to hit me before I can reach them, hence they are overpowered".

Get a clue morons.  Adapt or die (as the guy above says).  use some teamwork and tactics and archers won't be an issue.

You don't want to take cover behind shielders if archers are raining down fury, you don't want to protect your own archers who are able to hit the enemy archers, your brilliant solution to your problem is to remove or nerf archers from the game?   

sjarken is the famed internet mouth breathing retard.

[Kafein]

"I want to be able to rambo charge at archers and kill them, but they are able to hit me before I can reach them, hence they are overpowered".

If you look at it closely, this is far from being what the melee lobby says.

I mean, there's a certain difference between a few shots while you are closing on the archer, and a theoritically infinite (even though limited by the number of arrows in their quivers and available to pick up) number of shots due to infinite kiting.

Archers are fine in siege, but not in battle. They only start becoming a pain in the ass when classes that do not have the tools to kill them with the current game mechanics (that is, every class except archers or xbowmen given good cover), have to do just that.

[Lichen]

Archery just needs more skill/tactics/strategy involved to be good at it than currently required. Doesn't need to be nerfed, just raise the skillset needed.

-make it so you can't walk or rotate more than 90 (or maybe 180) degrees with a bow drawn
-implement bow sway (more PD reduces bow sway but you'll have less accuracy----less PD = more bow sway but more WPF)

[duurrr]

just remove archery and cav

oh wait you made melee terribly slow and boring, so everyone will quit if theyre forced to melee, nevermind