New item: Long Pike

[_JoG_]

not only would a pike longer than the current one be realistic, it would also look cool. The long pike as it is called looks awesome in other mods and widely evades the problem of rediculously long weapons that other weapons have.

Long spears are needed too because atm

our spears are pretty much just WOODEN STAFFS WITH POINTS

Do you guys realize that the "length" stat of the polearms written in your inventory window is not is not the actual length of the 3d model? For example, this is the weapon with a "length" of... hm... 160 cm, according to c-rpg.net. You can clearly see that 3d model of the halberd is obviously longer than 2 meters.

(click to show/hide)

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Same thing for all polearms. War spear, for example, has the real length of more than 2 m, which is absolutely realistic.

The length of spears and pikes is absolutely OK. You'd better learn the game mechanics (namely, what is the physical meaning of the polearm "length" parameter) prior to making such suggestions.

[DrKronic]

Mmmmm a spear IS a wooden staff with a pointy end actually .....

I own a african throwing spear(from a friends trip) it is a carved piece of wood with two metal pieces that attach to the front and back(rear for stability, front end pointy) 

Aside from the hellenic age over a thousand years before the mods 12th to 16th century weapon era, Spears were mainly a militia weapon during the medieval era, they didn't have phalangites in the 13th century, the war spear is as long as what would have been fielded

Biggest problem with a spear is IRL good luck holding a wooden stick and expecting it to block(especially blow after blow) a metal axehead, sword or mace

I.e. spears long wooden shaft acts as a permanent shield when in reality it would be crushthroughed or cutthroughed

[cutsomecheesewithmybow]

I am not really sure Warband uses metric system.

[Cyclopsided]

Updated original post to 350 weapon length, I think that is more agreeable for a slow thrust only long pike.

Also, as it is true that the M&B measuring system is not metric, the Pike in game is equivalent to that of a rather short pike; I am suggesting a thrust-only long pike that is well within what was actually used in real life while still being balanced in game.

[Noble Crassius]

Luv it we need more pikes like these

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Aside from the hellenic age over a thousand years before the mods 12th to 16th century weapon era, Spears were mainly a militia weapon during the medieval era, they didn't have phalangites in the 13th century, the war spear is as long as what would have been fielded

Not true but only because the Swiss brought out the pike wall to counter the heavy cav based armys of the time, and totally revolutionized feudal warfare. The pike square was pretty much a new and improved version of the Phalanx.

[Welcome_To_Hell]

Lets clear this up. M&B in-game parameter reads: "weapon reach". It is the distance from the tip to the hand.

Imho the current pike provides plenty of reach for current needs. And there are a few game play reasons for the absence of super long pikes.


 - A weapon with that much length would out-compete any lancer without any need for good footwork on pikemans behalf.

 - Current animations for stab would be weird.

 - Blocking with a weapon that long would look retarded.

 - Fighting against a turtle... Spin around move with a stick that long? I think not...




Realistic? If we talking realism, I should be able to cut all the wood shafted weapons in half with my flamberge. Particularly pikes.

[Cyclopsided]

Lets clear this up. M&B in-game parameter reads: "weapon reach". It is the distance from the tip to the hand.

Imho the current pike provides plenty of reach for current needs. And there are a few game play reasons for the absence of super long pikes.


 - A weapon with that much length would out-compete any lancer without any need for good footwork on pikemans behalf.

 - Current animations for stab would be weird.

 - Blocking with a weapon that long would look retarded.

 - Fighting against a turtle... Spin around move with a stick that long? I think not...




Realistic? If we talking realism, I should be able to cut all the wood shafted weapons in half with my flamberge. Particularly pikes.

The weapon would be too long to even spin thrust. Enemies would have to be ~a meter away to spin thrust them.
....Horses are supposed to fear a dedicated pikeman.
And again; the animation seems fine for the other weapons. However, thanks for the input.

[Noble Crassius]

To each of your reasons...

-One direction of attack look at OP's game characters name and wonder if you can. Misunderstood still thats the point of pikes.

-How can one judge that w/o seeing i think it will look fine imo

-only valid point but a simple "can not block" tag will fix this if devs feel that way

-not a very well put point I can' tell what you mean if you mean they won't be able to fight against a turtle well good it needs a weakness. If you mean it can, I don't think a spin thrust would be very effective with that length anyways. In general this is a moot point.

[Braeden]

It'd be worth a test, I think.  I'd support putting it in and re-adding the LoC.

Then I could get sniper crossbowmen, 1h'ers, and some longpikemen and make a Tercio!

[Bobthehero]

Well I would still use the old pike just to reach those ladders in siege, its insanely useful for that too.

[Cyclopsided]

To each of your reasons...

-One direction of attack look at OP's game characters name and wonder if you can. Misunderstood still thats the point of pikes.

-How can one judge that w/o seeing i think it will look fine imo

-only valid point but a simple "can not block" tag will fix this if devs feel that way

-not a very well put point I can' tell what you mean if you mean they won't be able to fight against a turtle well good it needs a weakness. If you mean it can, I don't think a spin thrust would be very effective with that length anyways. In general this is a moot point.

You really are over-estimating the capabilities of a long pike in single combat. It can't hit ANYONE within several feet of the user, EVEN SPIN THRUSTING. Chambering the weapon back will not pull the tip close enough to the user of the long pike even when spin thrusting. If you get close to them, they are a free kill. Once you step in the long pikes minimum range, the long pikeman can ONLY block. Also, it's attack speed is 70. 70. It has to be able to block or it can't be a dedicated weapon as intended. You are aware that a long pike user will move really slow due to it's weapon length, also.
I put a lot of thought into balancing it before the initial post. However, Until people can agree on a length I wouldn't make a model.

[Phalanx300]

Yes a longer pike would be great! Especially seeing Historical pikes were longer anyway.

[Armbrust_Schtze]

stop dumb post spam! there is a topic concerning that stupid pike already!

[Laufknoten]

Price: ~5800
Weight: 3.5
Requirement: 11
Spd rating: 65
Weapon length: 350
Thrust damage: 25 Pierce - way more, I'd say 30-34 pierce
No swing. No overhead. Thrust only.        how collision detection works, it can't have overhead.[/color]
Can not be used with shield.
Can not be used on horse.
Unbalanced.                                     
Can not be sheathed. You drop it instead of put it away.  Something like with how ladders are used in siege. This should not be capable for someone to pull out of their pocket, to prevent it from being abused by random non-dedicated characters for use against horses.

Result would be a slow but hardhitting and extremly long weapon, useless for 1 vs. 1 (yeah my old friends, deal with it) but perfect for a supporting class.

[_JoG_]

Also, as it is true that the M&B measuring system is not metric, the Pike in game is equivalent to that of a rather short pike; I am suggesting a thrust-only long pike that is well within what was actually used in real life while still being balanced in game.

I am not really sure Warband uses metric system.

Sure, the length of all one-handed and two-handed weapons weapons fits into metric system perfectly, yet "it is true that the M&B measuring system is not metric".

Americans...

Original M&B pike is about 3-3.5 m long.

Off-topic

Not true but only because the Swiss brought out the pike wall to counter the heavy cav based armys of the time, and totally revolutionized feudal warfare. The pike square was pretty much a new and improved version of the Phalanx.

At the very beginning of their strugge, the Swiss used halberds, they started combining halberdiers with pikemen after they realized that a short halberd by itself couldn't serve as an effective anti-cavalry weapon. With time, pikemen to halberdiers ratio increased. So, it was not Swiss who "brought out the pike wall".
The revolution in the  late 15-17th century warfare has nothing to do with just pikes. It arose mostly due to the novel army recruitment system.