What's the primary weapon of an archer ?

[Wraist]

No it isn't, long espada is the proper weapon.

Only if you have no sense of taste. Side Sword.

[Dezilagel]

Make someone carrying a bow unable to sprint. Doesn't affect melee combat, hardly affects archer "duels" and makes my old friendging out impossible.

Reduce the need for maxing out WPF for archers a bit.

Tell the archers to "man up" and understand that fighting even with 0 wpf in melee is perfectly possible.

[Leshma]

2 ps isnt enough leshma Archers would still run.

Better than 0 PS.

2:1 ratio would be exploited by STR archers...

[rabbit]

NERF THEIR DAMAGES AND THEIR MOVEMENTS !

[Teeth]

Alternatively, disable archers from reaching sprint speed (the sudden speed up you normally do after 3 seconds of purely running forward) This will still allow ye old shoot & sidestep and minor repositioning, but they can't outspeed infantry when they are carrying their bow. So if they want to run, they have to switch to their melee weapon, which in turn disables them to run and shoot and might actually motivate people to get melee proficiency and become a proper battle archer.

Apart from that I think the archer wpf system should be reworked so an archer can wear some decent armor and be somewhat decent in melee, while retaining their current archer strength. I am fine with archers as long as they stand and fight. Force archers to become light/medium bow armed soldiers, instead of the peasants with bows they are now.

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Thats an archer.

[Uumdi]

I think the slot system is broken.  The major issues were pocket pikes way back when before the no sheathing came into play - it balanced every 2her using an arbalest, which was great.  1-slot Crossbows became very useful and popular.

Though I don't want every archer carrying a 2h axe or greatsword, there is absolutely no reason why they can't carry a sheathed 1 hand sword.  Absolutely no reason.  If they pay the upkeep on an espada, they should be able to carry one.

Not to derail the thread, but they need to remove or lower the str requirements on most weapons too

[Tot.]

I don't think what we want here to achieve is to reproduce the native omnipotence of an archer as a ultimate ranged my old friend...fighter plus decent melee fighting capability (unless player sucks). We want them to be fucked if infantry or cav catches them.

The paradigm should change from "hoho I'm helicopter gunship, shooting, running, shooting, running, if anything what I can't deal with comes near - I just run away, HAH!" to "humm, I better make sure I have team support before I start shooting since if I don't then I won't be able to run away once I engaged".

[Adamar]

No such thing as team support, we have to stand on our own unfortunately.

Buff ranged melee abilities and make it so wearing armor doesn't lower accuracy too much. Then players will have the option of not kitting and they wont kite properly in armor. Melee players would still have the upper hand in a close encounter with the ranged player, if they had matching melee skills.

edit: I really dont think removing sprint from archers is a good idea: Team rushes forward, meleers run front, archers are left behind and raped by cav.

[Balton]

I had suggested a slightly better 0 slot melee weapon in IRC a day or two ago. Still inferior to 1 slot weapons, but with at least 70 length and so. The current 0 slot weapons are only useful for blocking a few attacks before getting a chance to run away.

What a terrible idea that serves no real purpose. Most archers don't put points into powerstrike, and thus won't melee even with a German Greatsword. Those that do put points in it carry the 1slot mace and will melee as things stand now. No one is going to put points into PS just to wield a 0 slot weapon, unless it gets a significant buff (which would eliminate the whole idea behind it being 0 slot).

As someone already suggested, making the arrows weigh significantly more (double or something similar) would solve the problem, because they would only be able to run away from tincans (and let's face it, it would be silly of them not to).

[Tot.]

Then archers will have problems with keeping up with the team in general. I don't think the main point is to make them simply slow, it's just that to reduce the ability of skirmishing with impunity and force them to rely on their team to protect them while engaging instead of their own legs.

More teamwork, less lone wolf legolas heroes.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Problem: Builds are varied and some people do things other than hit everything with a big ol sword.
Solution: Go play native.

Forcing a melee weapon on them won't do shit, most won't take it.

1. You have to put WPF into something other than archery
2. You have to point into PS
3. There is no problem, stop crying.

[Black Wind]

L2P issue.

Dodging > kiting.

This game really doesn't need more nerfing. If melee had it their way, the arrows would be plastic, and the lances would be pool-noodles. Serioisly, stop ye' bitchin'.


Edit: To all those people saying "give them a more feasible 0 slot weapon", you're all idiots. Why? If an archer is specced into archery, and therefore has 6 or 7 aths with 6 PD, and 0 ps, and 1 1h wpf, what do you expect, duels? Think again Jimmy Neutron.

[Old_Sir_Agor]

how funny people are, they want have str character with 70 hp and 60+ armor, no shield, some 2h or big axe and run with same speed as archers to kill easilly.

[Siberian_Wolf]

You guys are so sad...

Everyone cried how archers were able to be so good in melee.... so they nerfed them. Now that they suck in melee and can only run, you want to give them something else youll cry about.

Youll always find a reason to cry when someone kills you, whether its their build, stuff in your eye, their weapon is op yours is up, what ever. Just sit down and admit

 1. they are better then you... yeah, it happens
 2. that there are counters to your class... so look around and find a teammate ( shielder or archer hunter would be nice )
 3. Everyone cries, maybe go fill a bucket and come back and play after?

[Spa_geh_tea]

^ exactly that, buffing their melee would only encourage more archers.