cRPG Nations Cup Rule discussions

[Zotte]

New suggested Rule, instead of allowing only 4 players out of the same clan in the 16 man team, we wanted to change it so that no more then 4 or 5 (not yet decided) members of the same clan can be active on the 10 man team at the same time. This should allow for easier teamformation for certain if not most nations.

[Dezilagel]

I very much support that, considering it's summertime and scraping people together is already hard.

[Chagan_Arslan]

No restrictions? Ok, interresting

How about 10 guys full heirloomed plate with a great maul, how would you play this as a team?

 

one lancer is all it takes

[Akynos]

I read through most of the topic, and I got the main arguments, so I'll try to change some minds about it ( even though it seems impossible :p)

Main vs STF

Arguments for main:

-It is c-rpg.We play it to be able to have our own characters with their own looms. Otherwise it would be Native !
-We wouldn't have our own names !
-Overall, it wouldn't reflect what happens on the battlefield!

My arguments:

-crpg is not about looms, it is about the infinite possibilities of classes that native does not offer.Looms are but merely a bonus for
veterans.Having loomed items against someone who doesn't is however a decisive advantage, which makes the competition..well..uncompetitive.

-As Dezilagel said, it would still be fairly easy to recognise someone if they were to use a similar name. My current name is Skono_The_Slow, I would simply change it to FR_Skono_The_Slow.With the tags, it won't make a difference.Even without tags, it won't be difficult.

-We are about to fight a tournament, which means it has NOTHING to do with the day-to-day battlefields.It is completely different.

Item/class restriction vs No restriction

Arguments against restrictions:

-It wouldn't be a c-rpg tournament, but a native ! We need to be able to use the weapons we usually use !

-Diversity is what it is all about! Let people be what they wanna be ! Peace and love man ! *love sign*

-There is always a counterpart to classes, so it's ok to let teams specialise as they wish.

My arguments :

-Agreed. We should be able to use the weapons we use generally.

-Sure.

The problem with no restrictions is the following: If a team goes full plate and plated charger because of no restrictions, it will probably go to the final rounds, even if they re not as skilled as other teams. So what do we need?

We need a way to allow full diversity but also limit abuses within it.

Methods:

1-Set a fixed amount of classes within the team

ie: of 10 players, 4 infantry,4 ranged, 2 cavalry.

This allows full control and balance of classes.
However, it does limit the diversity.

2- As one poster suggested pertinently: Set a limited amount of gold per TEAM.

Im my opinion, this is the fairest of all. Every team receives the same amount of gold to buy armor and weapons.
They take the class they want, the equipment they want. Their choice. Full freedom of class and item.

Moreover,this will disallow abuses, such as a full plated-cav-lancer team.

This will allow team cooperation and tactics to come foward ( "Ok, so you take the plate, I take the light armor: you are cav, right, mr.V? Ok, we have a credit of 30k left...you will be light armored then".)

Of course, this will limit the item choice, but in my opinion, it is the best mix of freedom and fairness.

Now that we have got the arguments sorted it, it comes to the organizers to decide what they would like.

Anyway, thank you for reading, and most of all thanks for this great tournament and have fun ! 

[SoA_Sir_ODHarry]

why not let the Teams decide just before they have a Fight instead of makeing fix Rules of Gear/Class Restrictions.
probably the Tourny will take a while so each Fight could be organised like some Clan scrims.
another Job for the Captains then....

[Tomas]

why not let the Teams decide just before they have a Fight instead of makeing fix Rules of Gear/Class Restrictions.
probably the Tourny will take a while so each Fight could be organised like some Clan scrims.
another Job for the Captains then....

Because you need an official set of rules to fall back on if the Captains disagree.  However you could do what you say be giving each clan full control over the equipment/class rules when fighting on their home map.  But that is a lot of messing about imo and i'd rather just have a set of rules set out before hand.

[SoA_Sir_ODHarry]

sure
and i see no problem too set Rules but at the same time keep being flexibel too the different Situations of each Team
Also it would be more interesting if the different Teams can somehow evolve/use there own Tactics due the Classes they field ,instead of giving each Team strict Standards.
and so the cRPG factor of the tourny would stand out even more

I just wrote in another Thread that if u know that GK(for exampel) is on the Server u know whats the Deal and should see it as a Challenge....instead of change the Game too cut down
some dedicated Teamplay.
So if the Nations with a smaller player pool have lots of good 2h/Cav or Range they induvidual Str. shouldnt be decreased by unflexibel Restrictions as it will also decrease the Quality of the Tourny-battels overall.

[Tomas]

sure
and i see no problem too set Rules but at the same time keep being flexibel too the different Situations of each Team
Also it would be more interesting if the different Teams can somehow evolve/use there own Tactics due the Classes they field ,instead of giving each Team strict Standards.
and so the cRPG factor of the tourny would stand out even more

I just wrote in another Thread that if u know that GK(for exampel) is on the Server u know whats the Deal and should see it as a Challenge....instead of change the Game too cut down
some dedicated Teamplay.
So if the Nations with a smaller player pool have lots of good 2h/Cav or Range they induvidual Str. shouldnt be decreased by unflexibel Restrictions as it will also decrease the Quality of the Tourny-battels overall.

If Battlegroups worked i'd suggest that each team just be given a whole range of gear and they can use whatever gear they want from it.  Pity it is broken - hint hint chadz ;)

[Spanish]

So is their any general sense or idea of what the rules may be? The most obvious on being STF vs mains because thats a definite factor I will be considering when choosing my team. I know you that you dont but mainly on when you will be deciding what the basic rules will be.

[crazybob]

If you want restrictions you should send a message to chadz about it so he can implement it into crpg (since you think current crpg is so flawed that it needs to be changed to achieve balance).

No restrictions please. Lets play crpg.

[Chagan_Arslan]

restrictions would be good only if we would play one round and thats it

if there will be more than one round i see no reason for teams to have restrictions as they can pick proper gear to face their enemy in future rounds

[Cicero]

New suggested Rule, instead of allowing only 4 players out of the same clan in the 16 man team, we wanted to change it so that no more then 4 or 5 (not yet decided) members of the same clan can be active on the 10 man team at the same time. This should allow for easier teamformation for certain if not most nations.

That needs to be at least 5 without captain.
Otherwise its bullshit =)


Also i suggest some limits :
1 Crushthrough
1 Heavy armour
2 Cav
2 Ranged ( HA counts as cav+range )

[Tot.]

New suggested Rule, instead of allowing only 4 players out of the same clan in the 16 man team, we wanted to change it so that no more then 4 or 5 (not yet decided) members of the same clan can be active on the 10 man team at the same time. This should allow for easier teamformation for certain if not most nations.

So clans which include most if not all valuable cRPG players from a nation will actually be forced to remove some of the members from the clan for the duration of this cup? This rule is idiotic, to say the least.

[Spanish]

I don't understand why there should be any restrictions on anything especially classes. If I want my team to be a bunch of 2h plate crutchers what's wrong with that!? We may get brutally destroyed against a team that has good cav and archers to cut us down. Even a team full of cav would be fairly easy to stop if you had plenty of pikes and good archers and of course patience. The only problem I see if it's like 6 archers that just try and kite the entire time  then that would suck but heavy cav can beat that.

[Plavor]

Omg, some guys don't really understand why there are restrictions in some tournaments...

Scenario :

1) A topskilled team with full loomed set being only cav ( lancers/1h/archers ) can own every team who is on ground ( few exceptions )

There should be exceptions because the tournament wouldn't be the same if there are teams winning just because they are all cav/range/maulers.

Of course, this does not represent cRPG as it is in real, because crpg is mostly unbalanced because one team has always more cav/range that can decide a battle's result.


Last but not least, I agree with Cicero and ToT with the player restriction. I think Byzantium will anyway delete this rule.

Cicero's suggestion would be nice, but I also would prefer 1 more cav or archer :

1 Crushthrough
1 Heavy Armor ( better armor than the restriction )
2 Cavs ( if you have 3 range ) / 3 Cavs ( 2 range )
2 or 3 Range