Poll

Buff Kutana stab

make same as long sword
18 (20.7%)
make same as awlpike
2 (2.3%)
make same as +3 awelpike
4 (4.6%)
make insta kill
63 (72.4%)

Total Members Voted: 87

Author Topic: Long Sword vs another sword  (Read 7407 times)

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Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Long Sword vs another sword
« on: May 20, 2012, 07:48:08 am »
-20
Fammi un pompino!

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Offline Bobthehero

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2012, 09:45:34 am »
+3
That's about as scientific as the tests I've done with my own arming sword, and I was piss drunk.
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Offline Christo

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2012, 10:30:42 am »
+2
lol, this video again.

Isn't biased at all, hehe.

Stuff like the pre-cut ice block for the Katana, it's a classic.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 10:33:04 am by Christo »
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Offline _Sebastian_

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2012, 11:00:17 am »
+1
Oh no not this shity video again.
There is already a thread about it.

If you have eyes...
you can see that the long sword is completly blunt, from the ice block test till the end.
This video is made by some stupid americans with no knowledge of historical weapons and they just push the pseudo "awesomeness" of the katana much more higher,
so this video is a piece of shit... not more.

Offline zagibu

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2012, 01:09:25 pm »
0
It still needs a thrust buff, though. 16 pierce is ridiculously low. Make it 19 or 20.
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Offline Herkkutatti

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2012, 01:25:23 pm »
+5
Quote
105 speed

40 cut
40 thrust

HAHA. katana is gay as it is atm , i don't want it to be buffed or nerfed, i want it to be removed. i don't really know whats the point on adding shit like katana/weaboo shit, but not add super fucking cool armors and others stuff what has been suggested many times.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 01:26:28 pm by Herkkutatti »
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Offline Adamar

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2012, 02:31:29 pm »
0
Just remove katana and be done with this crap.

Offline Peasant_Woman

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2012, 03:00:40 pm »
+2
I don't understand the katana hate. It is a bit too fast (so is longsword but yeah whatever). Next you guys will be going after the Nodachi and throwing stars... Other players aren't allowed to have fun if it impacts on your ridiculous notion of 'realism'?

I'd be for renaming it to 'Strange sword' like it used to be, to represent the fact that a european or middle eastern warrior seeing this weapon for the first time would have one thing to say about it... 'Thats a very strange sword'.
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Offline Laufknoten

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2012, 03:27:31 pm »
+2
Chill guys, it's just the random katana troll thread that pops up every few months. :D

edit: Love the video "lets test a tool that is designed for cutting against a blunt piece of steel. Oh surprise, the katana cuts better. Derp."
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 03:31:31 pm by Laufknoten »
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Offline BlindGuy

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2012, 03:53:17 pm »
+4
Japanese 11th century (yes, katana is 11th century technology) steel was fucking shit.

vs

European 15th century steel


If you blocked a longsword with a katana, you would be left holding a katana hilt and wondering why you ever bothered comparing. Its shit, but thats historical issue.

Now lets look at physics: stab at armour with a curved, thin weapon made from low quality steel, your gonna bend it at best, more likely to just snap it. The shape is wrong for stabbing, loading the center of the blade with all the impact, and the point is not designed to penetrate armour.

Now lets consider some stuff: HOLLYWOOD and Akira Kurosawa have a LOT to answer for, the samurai was NOT a master swordsman by nature, he was:

1/ a Horse archer. ALL samurais that fought (being a samurai did NOT mean you were a warrior, it was just a class definition) where HORSE ARCHERS

2/ a Polearmer: The Yari and Naginata where the main melee weapons of samurai, along with the bamboo spear.

A katana was a emergency, last chance, desperation weapon, to be used if ALL else had failed. They were decent enough in 11th century, but were not changed in design for 900 YEARS! By the 13th century, the armour had improved to the point that using a katana on a battlefield was virtually suicide. They were reserved for ceremonial display, ritual suicide, and duels of honour between nancyboys.

Samurai weapons in crpg are: Hafted Blade, long hafted blade, bamboo spear, yumi, military scythe, double sided lance, maybe some more Ive forgotten.


Now lets consider ninja, the shinobi: There ARE in crpg MANY ninja weapons. Some of them are: bamboo spear, military sickle, shortened military scythe, studded warclub (bit chinese but its ok), staffs, stones, scythe. Lets keep in mind who ninjas where, and what they did:

1/ Spies. Ninja were peasants by birth, and were hired to listen in to pub conversations, peasant meetings, and blend in.

2/ Terrorists/Unresters: Hired to weaken an enemy population's trust in their fuedal lord, they would destroy cooperative crop storages, and incite unrest among peasants, requiring the samurai to expend time and energy quelling them.

3/ Sabotage: ninja trained hard to be able to infiltrate castles and set them on fire, to shorten sieges.

4/ Mercenaries: they were used alongside peasant militias as skirmishers and low value infantry, usually as fodder for enemy cavalry charges, allowing the main forces (consisting of cavalry) to charge into enemy forces from the side, taking the glory.


ASSASINATION: Samurai's pubicly held to their code of honour and ethics, much as medieval knights were pubicly bound to the code of chivalry. Since we KNOW that these codes were stuck to only as long as it was productive, we can safely assume that assasins where samurai, since their combat prowess would far outstrip that of a ninja, who is, essentially, a very sneaky peasant.

Since we established that samurai did not use katana, and that carrying a katana as a ninja would have made them pretty fucking useless as an infiltrator, they would not have carried one either.

The use of pyjama's in blacks, dark reds and blues, by ninja is a hollywood carryon, developted from the japanese operatic mechanic of having a stagehand (who wore dark colours so the audience knew to ignore their presence onstage) murder a main character of the opera, leading everyone to understand he was murdered by stealth.

So now we have established that:

1/ Neither samurai nor ninja used katana

2/ Ninja did NOT wear dark colours, in nicely colourordenated suits,

WHY o WHY do you wear that silly gear and use katana yet call yourself ninja? Just grab a Kuyak and a greatsword, and blend in with the 80% of the players who do this, THAT is what a ninja would do.


Back to topic: katana was functional as a peasant killing weapon in the 11th century, and should not be even considered a sword, when compared to the vastly technologically superior european weapons of the 14th-16th century, ie the Longsword.

If anything needs removing though, its blocking from greatswords: the longsword was the largest sword to EVER, at ANY POINT in history, be used as a standalone weapon. Greatswords had the simple function of being killing tools: you were not expected to duel with it, nor would it be possible, their use was to cleave the heads of the light infantry of the 16th-17th centuries, who in turn stood inside pike formations, to be deployed in the event of 2 pike formations locking together, the light infantry would then crouch under the pikes, and close on front line of enemy, stabbing their feet, groin and legs. The greatsworders would then step past the pikemen and brutally beat the light infantry back. Very few ppl alive could wield a greatsword in the manner of a longsword, which was probably the very apex of double bladed swords, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3DhjFUOG6Y As we see there, even though they are just demonstrating, the longsword is very fast, and multiple uses of it would mean it far outstripped a greatsworder, or a katana monkey.

/rant.

SO MUCH is wrong with crpg, but katana stab is not part of it. Removing blocking from pikes, longspears, greatswords and great axes would be a start towards improving the game. Buffing what is already a ridiculously overpowered sword *the katan* is not needed in any way.

I don't know enough

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Offline Ninja_Khorin

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2012, 04:46:07 pm »
+1
LOL, Blindguy. The fuck you on about. Ninjas are badass not some ghey people hiding in the crowd. Only reason Ninjas are hard to see is because black cloth is impossible to see unless you wear glasses. And for the record, we all know that ninjas used a ninja-to, not a katana, but do you see a ninja-to anywhere in cRPG?

There are only 3 facts about ninjas. The rest is up to the ninja in question, as long as it is totally badass. There 3 facts are:
1.    Ninjas are mammals.
2.    Ninjas fight ALL the time.
3.    The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.
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The katana is very balanced as it is. You can't make it historically accurate because that would be unfair to you kiddies who like playing knights vs. princesses lol. Regarding that metal bollocks you wrote about katana breaking. Well MY katana is made of spanish steel, because I can afford it, because I don't spend all day in my plate pantaloons.

(click to show/hide)

Also, some guy once said that he heard some guy do something cool with a katana: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,24724.msg357087.html#msg357087

(click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 05:06:06 pm by Ninja_Khorin »

Offline BlindGuy

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2012, 07:37:00 pm »
+2

Regarding that metal bollocks you wrote about katana breaking. Well MY katana is made of spanish steel,

No, sorry, Toledo steel was a great leap forward in metalurgy, but number of japanese people who had access to it prior to 1800: ZERO.

Katana was a nice design to look at, an artistic masterpiece, lovely display item. Value as a weapon: Poor. Unable to deflect a blow, unable to pierce armour, unable to be halfsworded. Needs realistic stats tbh

Speed 99
Cut 30
Pierce 20

There, stab is buffed, be happy.
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Offline Adamar

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2012, 07:37:55 pm »
0
Trolling admin day.

Offline ArchonAlarion

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2012, 09:15:44 pm »
0
Blind guy wins, but Khorin survives a shamefur defeat by referencing Real Ultimate Power.

Offline Ninja_Khorin

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2012, 10:48:18 pm »
0
No, sorry, Toledo steel was a great leap forward in metalurgy, but number of japanese people who had access to it prior to 1800: ZERO.
Do I look japanese to you?

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No. I'm an adventurer from Zululand and I visited the temples of Nippon where I learned the art of crafting a katana, then I fought around the world(a la Russel Crowe) 'til I wound up in Spain and made me a proper sword(before that I used a zulustaff as taught by my grandfather Hubhub seen here: http://youtu.be/Svkj_e_uh-8?t=2m10s). After that I was thrown in to an alternate dimension where everything sort of resembled Earth, but wasn't actually Earth by Aku, the shapeshifting master of darkness. But the weirdest thing about this place is that some people seem to think it's Earth, when it clearly isn't. The graphics aren't nearly as good. Mindblowing, that.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 10:55:35 pm by Ninja_Khorin »