Author Topic: Need Cav guidance  (Read 2140 times)

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Offline Pappus

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Need Cav guidance
« on: May 05, 2012, 05:49:11 pm »
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Hi guys I am now a gen 2 char and before I played a 1h/shielder/thrower hybrid, which I used as dedicated thrower for most of the time.

So now I wanted to play cav and of course I checked the solid builds, but those are hybridized with low athletics again, which would make me slow as the previous build again. I disliked 5 athletics + shield, simply because I would be unable to pick my fight, which is also true for riding.

So this time I wanted something quicker so I can reliably pick my fights on my own and having an escape route to getting overwhelmed should my awareness fail me once.

The build I want should also not exceed high amounts of costs so I can atleast float on even money on a long streak of x1 multiplier.

So the the biggest armor I am willing to accept would be light kuyak +36ish leg + 30ish head. As I have sold my first loompoint doing foot rounds to save money would be out of question, however I would still want to keep my upkeep to reasonable levels, that is why currently I am equipped with:

Nasal Helm (0,9 weight 26 armor)
Light Kuyak (12.9 weight 42 body, 10 leg)
Mail Chausses (1,7 weight, 27 armor)
Heavy lance + Rouncey.

Normally I would tend with the courser, but the 20k payout does make me wonder if those 5 speed are really worth it at all and the second equipment question would be if I should pick up a second polearm as weapon.

This is the build I am currently aiming for:

12str
24agi

4 IF
4 PS
8 ATHL
8 Riding
5 Weaponmaster

148 Polearm WPF

I am unsure though, if riding 8 suffices to pick my fights or if 7 athl/riding would be more then enough, so criticism and advise is highly welcome.

Keep in mind for my needs, that I am a noobcav and prone to getting dismounted, which I don't terribly mind but might spend that time learning to block manually aswell. For my targets I would like, if possible, to be a threat to HA's, but I guess they will eat my rouncey rather quick :/

So if you have suggestions for itemloadout or character build or any other useful cav tips let me know :)

Offline Gourmi

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 11:51:04 pm »
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I would recomend not going 4 PS. And go atleast 5 PS just go no WM and 2 less Athletics and you can have 8 Riding and 5 PS
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Offline CaveSquirrel

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2012, 12:06:12 am »
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Rouncey isn't that good.

Get a Destrier/Arabian Warhorse or Courser.

Also, if you want to be Cav and Inf go for 18/18.

Other builds could be 18/21 , 15/24 and so on.

Armor is OK so far except that some better greaves would be better.
(Maybe even helmet.. you won't hate anything more than getting headshotted while riding at fullspeed.)

If you want to fight on ground with the heavy lance, better get a lance.
It makes 3 more piercedamage is faster and only 10cm shorter.
Or you get something else, War Spear, Glaive, whatever you like.

IF isn't needed as Cav imo, never skilled IF in my 15 Gens as cav.


E:

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 21

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Power Strike: 6
    Athletics: 7
    Riding: 7
    Weapon Master: 3

    Polearm: 133
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 12:14:46 am by CaveSquirrel »

Offline Herpderp

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2012, 10:11:03 pm »
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Go 18/18, 1h cav is my main and that's my build. It's a lot more fun than lancer cav imo. There are several things you can do, but I suggest sticking with a rouncey until you get really good and you know exactly what you need from a horse. Courser is good but not that useful beyond bonus damage and getting to somewhere on a map faster. Maneuver is more important against other horses then speed, you can catch up to a rouncey sure but if he's a good player you won't be able to hit him with a courser. My horse suggestion:

1h cav : Rouncey/Destrier
lancer cav : Rouncey/Courser
HA : Rouncey/Arabian Warhorse

You can use the plated horses but if you're after charge ability and HP I find that it's not worth the investment, Destrier is good enough starting out unless you have a ton of cash to burn.

For equipment I use the same on both lancer and 1h, with the exception of the lancer not having a shield. Don't really need a shield for lancer unless you feel like you are getting rushed by HA. 1h I find to be the best sidearm for cav because of slots and you can still be a shielder when you don't need your horse. With my 1h cav I sometimes bring a lance just to get a few couches off, most riders don't expect you to drop a lance and pull a sword out when you meet them in close range combat. What 1h weapon you use doesn't matter, the best are probably the Arabian cav sword and the shashka, some people like the morningstar but it's too slow in my opinion even though it opens up tin cans like a hot knife through butter, also leaves you vulnerable when dehorsed. You can also bring an xbow but that really eats into your money reserve.

For armour you don't need much as a 1h cav especially not head armour. You'll probably get 1shot on a horse when getting headshot so unless you're wearing plate it won't save you. With a shielder, your shield is your armour anyway. Wear light or no head armour, body armour depending on how heavy you want to go (higher leg armour is good), and for leg armour make it match your body armour and don't go for lower armour values.

My 1h cav build:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 1
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 5
Athletics: 6
Riding: 6
Weapon Master: 5
One Handed: 140
Polearm: 63

Don't need higher wpf for 1h really, for lancer cav I would do even wpf in polearm and onehand. How much iron flesh and shield you have depends on your playstyle. Personally, I find the round cav shield to be more then enough for a duel or two and to take arrows, and that only requires 2 shield. Note, IF is less useful with lower armour, so if you want to save money while using 1h/shield/lance/horse or 1h/crossbow/steel bolts/horse and light armour then don't bother with it. You can also give up a few points of athletics if you don't care about being off your horse.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 10:13:51 pm by Herpderp »

Offline Riddaren

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 07:29:35 pm »
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As a cavalryman your own armour and hitpoints are not very important.
What's important is the horse and that you don't let it get hit. I rarely get killed before my horse dies.
On the other hand I usually ride an arabian warhorse which dies pretty easily ;)

Anyway, putting skill points in IF is not something I would suggest unless you have spare points.
It's better to put those into WM as it increases weapon speed and damage.

Don't get 7 riding unless you want to be able to use the arabian warhorse.
If you just want to be able to use the rouncey you could get 27/3. It's actually not a bad build as long as your horse is alive.

I would recommend the 15/21 build and the arabian warhorse for you.

- 5ps 7at 7ri 7wm 3sh

If you want to use a 1h on foot instead of a staff or other polearm you could put all but 50 WPP into 1h.
That way you will also be really good with 1h from horseback. Using 1h with arabian warhorse  is really good.
Atleast I have used that build before and it was both fun and effective.

If I wasn't already level 34 I would definately have 50 or something wpf in polearm and rest 1h.
Fighting and winning over 3 enemies on foot with a shield is not impossible. Its a lot harder with a quarter staff.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 07:35:01 pm by Riddaren »

Offline Phazey

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2012, 11:23:11 am »
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If you just want to be able to use the rouncey you could get 27/3.
You need riding 3 for a rouncey, so that's 9 agility minimum, not 3.

Pappus: take a look at the steppe horse. It's quite agile and very cheap. Great starter horse until you can afford riding around on an arabian warhorse. Very weak though.
Pro tip: dismount and kill your horse when it's critically wounded. That way, you'll prevent getting dismounted at awkward moments.

This is the build I am currently aiming for:

12str
24agi

4 IF
4 PS
8 ATHL
8 Riding
5 Weaponmaster

148 Polearm WPF

That's a good enough build, but power strike 4 is a bit low.

How about this:
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 21

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Power Strike: 6
    Athletics: 7
    Riding: 7
    Weapon Master: 3

    Polearm: 133

That way, you'll have riding 7 and be able to use any horse on the battlefield and you'll still be able to deal adequate damage.

Offline Ronin

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2012, 11:57:57 am »
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Pro tip: dismount and kill your horse when it's critically wounded. That way, you'll prevent getting dismounted at awkward moments.
You sadist! Just dismount and leave the horse as it is! It is your best friend!
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Offline Phazey

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2012, 12:06:03 pm »
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You sadist! Just dismount and leave the horse as it is! It is your best friend!

Haha, yeah. And then to have my horse being swiped by an opponent and ride away with it? No thanks.

I do leave my horse alive when the chance of an enemy getting it is minimal. But when it can go either way, i find it's safer to dispatch it rather than risk it falling into enemy hands.

War is cruel, eh?  :P

Offline Pappus

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2012, 12:07:43 pm »
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Currently sitting at 7/7 still have to level a bit, however I am having a lot of trouble with my courser. The horse simply dies way too easily, when I charge an archer and he notices it (not a little sound) and he hits me charging him head on he can oneshot my courser.

When riding sidewards at full speed my courser will be twoshot and obviously it isn't very hard to hit a mount sideways.

So my only option is to be zoned and move away from any wary archer, which in a full battle is near impossible. It simply drops too fast, although I am trying to avoid positive speed bonus dmg for the archer.

I am a bit at a loss here, how to increase my survivability rate. Should I  maybe switch to an armored horse with 8 riding?

Offline Ronin

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2012, 12:10:00 pm »
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Haha, yeah. And then to have my horse being swiped by an opponent and ride away with it? No thanks.

I do leave my horse alive when the chance of an enemy getting it is minimal. But when it can go either way, i find it's safer to dispatch it rather than risk it falling into enemy hands.

War is cruel, eh?  :P
Well, you contradict yourself. You say you dismount the horse because it is very risky to use after the moment that it is heavily damaged. So if one of your opponent tries to ride it, he/she get the disadvantage instead. :P
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Seems the fascists are gaining ground once again in UKR... right vving politics is SO bad for the general populace but STILL in times of trouble the uneducated turn to them for help, simply because they are so amoral they vvill supply those vvilling to fight vvith vveapons rather than knovvledge.

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Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2012, 01:06:29 pm »
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IF isn't needed as Cav imo, never skilled IF in my 15 Gens as cav.


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Offline Phazey

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2012, 03:23:11 pm »
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Well, you contradict yourself. You say you dismount the horse because it is very risky to use after the moment that it is heavily damaged. So if one of your opponent tries to ride it, he/she get the disadvantage instead. :P

No it seems like a contradiction, but it isn't.  :rolleyes:
For example: that's could be an advantage for that person and a disadvantage for me, because I have no ranged weapons. It depends on the situation:

On an average battle there are several archers or throwers gunning for me when i do ride-by's, so trying that with a wounded steppe horse is very dangerous. So dismounting is often a prudent move. And killing the wounded horse makes sense if you are heavily outnumbered, for example, because there's a reasonable chance an enemy gets to use my horse against me.

When my team is winning, there is often no need to dismount when my horse is wounded, because there is enough 'safe ground' where i can ride without risking getting killed during the 'stun' period when my horse dies. It's all about positioning and keeping track of friendlies and enemies and minimizing risk accordingly.

Currently sitting at 7/7 still have to level a bit, however I am having a lot of trouble with my courser. The horse simply dies way too easily, when I charge an archer and he notices it (not a little sound) and he hits me charging him head on he can oneshot my courser.

The courser dies so fast because you are charging straight into those arrows / bolts / thrown weapons. Speed bonus is a big factor in cRPG. If you move away from the projectile, you'll notice that it'll deal much less damage. So try to be aware of all the ranged classes that are aware of you and simply avoid.

Another trick you can try: slow down. Instead of galloping at full speed when you approach an enemy from behind, you can slow down to a canter. That makes a lot less noise.

Also, use water to mute the hooves sound when there is water available (only on a few maps, sadly). Staying on the water's edge allows you to go full speed without making much sound at all.

So my only option is to be zoned and move away from any wary archer, which in a full battle is near impossible.

It's hard, but not impossible. Try laying low the first minute or two and taking more risks once the amount of (aware) ranged classes gets less.
You must think of cav as a support class. We cannot engage enemies directly, but we must rely on our teammates to disrupt and distract enemies, so we can sneak in from behind and hit them while they are busy (or at least focused) on your team's infantry. Or even other cav. Get out before they shoot you.

I would not recommend going 8 riding. It is not going to increase your survivability on horse much. Riding only improves your maximum speed, turning speed and accelleration... not horse hitpoints or anything like that.

Instead, try a different horse. Courser drives like a bus. Or perhaps like a drag racer. Great in straight lines and good for chasing other cav, but very hard to attack (aware and skilled) infantry with.
Perhaps a Destrier is a good horse for you. Or one of the armoured horses. They only need riding 5, by the way.

Offline Mlekce

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2012, 03:53:08 pm »
-1
:lol:
Destrier with 5 riding = shit
rouncey with 3 riding = shit
courser with 6 riding = shit

rouncey with 5-7 riding good
destrier with 7 riding - average
courser with 7 riding average

+3 rouney with 7 riding = Total WIN
arabian warhore = good
+3 arab warhorse = win but beaware it dies from one arrow

there is on market offer champ destrier for champ rouncey and no one want to trade rouncey for destrier :lol: Think about that. :wink:
Only thing destrier is good is having a lot of health,rest of stats are complete shit.

« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 03:54:15 pm by Mlekce »

Offline Mlekce

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2012, 04:07:06 pm »
-1
build is crap,choice of gear is crap.

you need good armor.
mongol armor or light kuyak,wisby gauntlets,rus splintered boots minimum,head anything over 40 head armor. Lance or heavy lance it is ur choice.
You don't need shield,play like a pro. Buy +3 rouncey and only use rouncey,other horses doesnt worth of money exept that heavy  horse khergits use in native.
You need heavy horse for one handed cav,and heavy armor. Lighter armor for lancer cav,and lighter horse.
You don't need over 6 riding. 6 is fine. You need 5 or over 5 ps. Invest all points in polearms.
Max wm is 5,anything over it is stupid.

other stuff you need to learn by playing.

Offline Pappus

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Re: Need Cav guidance
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2012, 05:14:40 pm »
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build is crap,choice of gear is crap.

you need good armor.
mongol armor or light kuyak,wisby gauntlets,rus splintered boots minimum,head anything over 40 head armor. Lance or heavy lance it is ur choice.
You don't need shield,play like a pro. Buy +3 rouncey and only use rouncey,other horses doesnt worth of money exept that heavy  horse khergits use in native.
You need heavy horse for one handed cav,and heavy armor. Lighter armor for lancer cav,and lighter horse.
You don't need over 6 riding. 6 is fine. You need 5 or over 5 ps. Invest all points in polearms.
Max wm is 5,anything over it is stupid.

other stuff you need to learn by playing.

I am gen 2, I can't have something +3. Sold my first loompoint.

What is wrong about my choice of gear? Except the helmet you advise the same thing...

Quote
Nasal Helm (0,9 weight 26 armor)
Light Kuyak (12.9 weight 42 body, 10 leg)
Mail Chausses (1,7 weight, 27 armor)
Heavy lance + Rouncey.

I took Mail Gauntlets (4 armor), because the other variants were simply too expensive. I am not running around with a high multiplier all the time. I will increase my boots according to your suggestions and wear rus splintered, since I can't wear heavier once due to my limited strength.

Since I can't have champ rouncey I guess a normal one will have to suffice.

Concerning the helm I took the nordic one with 40 armor.

With all those extra expenses the courser is definitely gone since I am already at 33k worth of gear and I actually want to make gold while I fight, at least a bit.

Thanks for the help