increase kick risk

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

as everyone who's played on NA duel in the past ~2 weeks will attest, lots of players have figured out that there is essentially no reason not to kick every time the opponent comes even kinda-sorta in range. unless you kick at a very bad time (someone circling you) or your opponent anticipates you're going to kick and stabs (and the downblock interrupt is very short), there's no reason not to kick, you basically trade half a second of immobility for a chance at a free hit. i think that kicking should be more risky - ie trying and missing should be penalized. in addition to this getting kicked is pretty annoying and the only way to really counter it is S key (ask badplayer how fun that is)

i don't know the risk should be increased, though - longer immobility if you miss, maybe, or a small window of no-blocks?

If you do want to nerf kicking the simplest thing to do is make blocking non-functional during a kick.

[Matey]

im late to the party here... but as a shielder who loves to facehug... i have prolly been kicked more than anyone else! ive gotten quite good at dodging it but when i fight someone who is good at kicking it means i have to avoid face hugs or try to do a lot of strafing, this means i either have to play more defensively than i already do and fight outside my optimal range which risks getting outreached if i miss a swing, or i have to move in specific ways in order to counter the kick which means the opponent can more easily predict my movements and attacks... or just force me into a position where they can kick me again. The penalty for the person doing the kicking is extremely minor, when I was inexperienced with kickers, I used to try to attack them just after their kick at which point they could release an attack and hit me before I could hit them, when I got better at it I would start swinging during their kick in which case they just casually block the attack. I realize that thrusts work on kicks sometimes... but the window of opportunity is very very small and you usually just get blocked, i also die a lot when I glance on a thrust, so that isn't great for me. I would love to see blocking removed during the kick animation, even if its still a fairly short window, it needs to have increased risk. I don't think it needs to be nerfed to the point where no one will bother using it, but missing a kick should be dangerous, just like missing a chamber, or trying to castor, or holding a swing... all other offensive moves carry some measure of risk, and while people who dont know how to kick at all are likely to get murdered, those who spend a bit of time figuring it out dont really risk anything when they kick.

TL:DR I agree, kicking needs to be a bit riskier and I think disabling block during the kick animation or at least for a bit of it, would be a decent way to do it.

p.s. Smoothrich! you are a filthy hippy. I use a long espada and thrusting when people kick is really not that effective, especially since I have to move all weird or s key in order to avoid getting hit in the first place, so I'm usually not in a good position to throw a thrust, especially when i cant just spin my character and make it connect.

[Spa_geh_tea]

In light of folks not helping short armed shielders against this crappy dilemma.

Here is tip to make your shielder kicks more effective, and your shielder gameplay more aggressive. Nothing is sexier in crpg then an agressive man with protection ;)

Attack-kick-attack.

The initial attacks get your enemy blocking; they are less likely to change char position or direction quickly. Now you can easily guess their direction and lead them into your kick. Then hit them again so they know you mean business.

What enemies will do is block-kick-block. Because they are inferior beings, unwillingly to get their hands covered in livers on the front line.

[Dexxtaa]

In light of folks not helping short armed shielders against this crappy dilemma.

Here is tip to make your shielder kicks more effective, and your shielder gameplay more aggressive. Nothing is sexier in crpg then an agressive man with protection ;)

Attack-kick-attack.

The initial attacks get your enemy blocking; they are less likely to change char position or direction quickly. Now you can easily guess their direction and lead them into your kick. Then hit them again so they know you mean business.

What enemies will do is block-kick-block. Because they are inferior beings, unwillingly to get their hands covered in livers on the front line.

I love inferior beings though.

[EyeBeat]

p.s. Smoothrich! you are a filthy hippy. I use a long espada and thrusting when people kick is really not that effective, especially since I have to move all weird or s key in order to avoid getting hit in the first place, so I'm usually not in a good position to throw a thrust, especially when i cant just spin my character and make it connect.

Don't get mad at Smooth.  He was only against it because I was lobbying for it.

Hopefully some more risk is put into kicking in the future.  Or just redesign it completely.

[//saxon]

just add shield bash

[Smoothrich]

Don't get mad at Smooth.  He was only against it because I was lobbying for it.

Hopefully some more risk is put into kicking in the future.  Or just redesign it completely.

Haha, not quite.  I agree that removing blocking is good (as long as it gets turning back into it), which would just be a rebalancing to kicking instead of a nerf.  Also, it puts shielders and non shielders on the same level.  If you complain about not being able to face hug with impunity, well.. it's designed to counter that.  And I bet you fast shielders get way more kills in people's faces spamming left and overhead (heh) swings then you do get killed by someone landing a kick.  It's not like I haven't done a few gens of shielder myself and know how they play.

Anyways like I said, it's gonna be changed soon enough so you can't block anymore, but you can pivot while you kick.  Sounds like a good change to me, more risk and more skill involved.  Kicking is a good move, and its definitely underused by the vast majority of players.  The only real abuse of kick was when I saw people like Beeper and BigSandwich use war spears to proc sideswing polestaggers and combo polestagger/kickstun/thrusts to just tear people apart.  Skillful, but kind of silly.

[Vex.]

Oh come on, so shielders will get a buff?
And giving shielders another advantage, like they dont have enough already? Blocks ranged, blocks 50 hits at the same time by pressing one button.
By fucking up the kick allows these agi shielders to facehug you and then they can just spam leftswing at you until u are dead, yey so much for nerfing the kick...
The kick is fine, just learn how to counter them.. And if u cant do that your not good enough!

[Para]

You can jump over kicks to dodge them. I seem to be the only one ever doing this, I'm not even sure if most people are even aware of this.

As a shielder that blocks chokepoints in siege, jumping over kicks in invaluable. You can usually get a counter attack off as you jump over their kick, and you usually hit their face with any swing you throw out there while you are in mid-air. Just learn who likes to kick and their positioning/timing habits and you can dodge most of their kicks with a jump. They especially helps you if you are ever cornered by a player and you know a kick is coming.

It can get you killed though, since there is a huge mobility delay after you land from a jump.

[kinngrimm]

Haha, not quite.  I agree that removing blocking is good (as long as it gets turning back into it), which would just be a rebalancing to kicking instead of a nerf.  Also, it puts shielders and non shielders on the same level.  If you complain about not being able to face hug with impunity, well.. it's designed to counter that.  And I bet you fast shielders get way more kills in people's faces spamming left and overhead (heh) swings then you do get killed by someone landing a kick.  It's not like I haven't done a few gens of shielder myself and know how they play.

Anyways like I said, it's gonna be changed soon enough so you can't block anymore, but you can pivot while you kick.  Sounds like a good change to me, more risk and more skill involved.  Kicking is a good move, and its definitely underused by the vast majority of players.  The only real abuse of kick was when I saw people like Beeper and BigSandwich use war spears to proc sideswing polestaggers and combo polestagger/kickstun/thrusts to just tear people apart.  Skillful, but kind of silly.

as mattey said there needs to be a higher risk, for this special move, which renders anyone but someone on horseback utterly defenceless
... after i was away for about a month, within a week i identified at least 10 more people who regularly use kickslash now.
Smooth i have seen such ganksquads on EU too, kick, polestagger kick ... when you meet them you are done
Also you made it sound like devs are doing sth about it, true?

[Son Of Odin]

Smooth i have seen such ganksquads on EU too, kick, polestagger kick ... when you meet them you are done

Didn't yet notice that the polestagger is gone kinny? ;)

[kinngrimm]

Didn't yet notice that the polestagger is gone kinny? ;)

nope, shit i am back about 10 days but nope didnt notice and refering i was more to my experiences before my latest absence.
So no polestagger at all anymore or only on some polearms and others not?

note to myself: read the latest change log


edit: i read back 2 months of change log there wasn't anything in there about polestagger, so must have been either before which i don't believe or it isn't in the change log which can happen or you pulling a stunt on me ^^ or sth else

[Son Of Odin]

nope, shit i am back about 10 days but nope didnt notice and refering i was more to my experiences before my latest absence.
So no polestagger at all anymore or only on some polearms and others not?

note to myself: read the latest change log

No polestagger whatsoever. None, nada, inte, ikke. Not even in spears or pike. Good change imo. I don't get called a polestun abuser anymore and can still hit people twice if I manage to land an overhead first  (which is difficult nowadays tho because of the turn limit on overhead & stab)

[kinngrimm]

well i noticed the turn restrictions often enough to not to try any quick stunts at people , espiaclly overhead is failing a lot. Before i left for about a month it was introduced and i had like every 4th or 5th strike a hit now it is like every 3rd or 4th, still adjusting hopefully i get it down to 1st to 2nd ^^. Needs carefull timing.

[Son Of Odin]

It's really gone, trust me. Yeah overheads require careful aiming now...