increase kick risk

[Son Of Odin]

No kinngrimm you already are powerful enough .

+ It's super hard trying to kick you because you are so fast runner. Your shield is durable enough in 1 vs 1 situation against my axe and you play extremely offensively in that situation (makes sense). Overhead + left slash feint combo gets me often during the time I'm trying to hack your shield to pieces. Even if I know to expect it from you as I do from every good shielder, I still fail against this "secret" combo of onehanders because it is simply hard to block if you don't pay enough attention.

I have been practising kicking in duelserver for couple months now and I still miss atleast half of them so I wouldn't say they are easy (atleast a dumbfuck like myself can't have a successful kick every time). Not to speak about kick slash. That slash part fails for couple reasons. Sometimes after my kick the opponent gets teleported couple meters away so my axe hits only air. Secondly if I kicked someone with noticeably faster weapon than my slow axe, they are able to block it half of the time I land a kick on them.

Kicks also have really simple counter. Some players never walk straight towards the enemy. So they are not kickable most of the time. They walk towards you and slightly right or left and then kicking is not an option.

Regards
Dolan
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[kinngrimm]

@odin
on duel or on battle, those who mastered the kickslash wait till you are comming at them or are already engaged into the fight. When you see a slight rythem/pattern emerge or are able to extrapolate out of the sorroundings some rules like "he is now at the wall, he cant move to that site the chances are high to succeed with kick" or "he just made a left right feint once and now he did again he will most likely do it a third time therefor i know where he will be and where to kick" or "he has a dude on right which i have attacked before that one is cautious now not with open strike therefor he doesn't have an attack open therefor i can kick one of the dudes with not too much risk" or the simplest of them all " i am going backwards, the other dude is following me ..."

strafing left or right can avoid only those where you also are out of reach of the kickslash already and not move closer to attack.
High athlethics does matter only in terms of timing not in terms of the effect. Someone Like Hearst who himself has a reasonable ath or just are able to tiem well like cicero don't have a problem at all with the opponets ath in terms of kickslashes.

[BlindGuy]

strafing left or right can avoid only those where you also are out of reach of the kickslash already and not move closer to attack.
High athlethics does matter only in terms of timing not in terms of the effect. Someone Like Hearst who himself has a reasonable ath or just are able to tiem well like cicero don't have a problem at all with the opponets ath in terms of kickslashes.

sooo....what your saying is, better players than you kick you, and your butthurt? or...what?

[Fartface]

@odin
on duel or on battle, those who mastered the kickslash wait till you are comming at them or are already engaged into the fight. When you see a slight rythem/pattern emerge or are able to extrapolate out of the sorroundings some rules like "he is now at the wall, he cant move to that site the chances are high to succeed with kick" or "he just made a left right feint once and now he did again he will most likely do it a third time therefor i know where he will be and where to kick" or "he has a dude on right which i have attacked before that one is cautious now not with open strike therefor he doesn't have an attack open therefor i can kick one of the dudes with not too much risk" or the simplest of them all " i am going backwards, the other dude is following me ..."

strafing left or right can avoid only those where you also are out of reach of the kickslash already and not move closer to attack.
High athlethics does matter only in terms of timing not in terms of the effect. Someone Like Hearst who himself has a reasonable ath or just are able to tiem well like cicero don't have a problem at all with the opponets ath in terms of kickslashes.

But even though you are good in predicting my kickslashes ( I saw yesterday at duel server) , I still had like 50% succes rate and even 95% of the kickslashed that failed i just blocked your right or left swingand we continioud like before. It realy has an risk<reward situation .

[Spawny]

Well, last week or so I was trying to improve my manual blocking a bit on the duel server. I usualy do that by fighting without my shield.
My main weapon is a broad one handed battle axe.

So...

I have 2 choices:
1. Stay back to avoid being kicked and I have to block 2-3 times for every attack I can make (read: an attack with my enemy in my range) and I get kicked as soon as I get close enough to hit. (Backpeddling 2h/polearm).
2. Stay out of his reach and run in the opposite direction.

When doing option 1, it's VERY hard to prevent getting kicked while also avoiding being kickslashed or outranged. Players who (ab)use the reach of their weapon will just hit me, run back a bit as I try to hit them and hit me. If I chase too much, I get predictable and get kicked. If I don't, I just get killed eventually by missing blocks.

Option 2, well, you get the point.

So, if after reading this, you feel the urge to type L2P or something, please type out what you think I can do to improve instead or help me out a bit on the duelserver tonight (around 22:00 CET +1).
I personally think that kicking should not be a counter for shielders. We allready have mauls, axes and cavalry for that. Adding every other form of melee to the counter list would make shielders only (minorly) useful to protect against range (shields can be penetrated by bolts, you can be shot over/under/around the shield).

[Vibe]

Well, last week or so I was trying to improve my manual blocking a bit on the duel server. I usualy do that by fighting without my shield.
My main weapon is a broad one handed battle axe.

So...

I have 2 choices:
1. Stay back to avoid being kicked and I have to block 2-3 times for every attack I can make (read: an attack with my enemy in my range) and I get kicked as soon as I get close enough to hit. (Backpeddling 2h/polearm).
2. Stay out of his reach and run in the opposite direction.

When doing option 1, it's VERY hard to prevent getting kicked while also avoiding being kickslashed or outranged. Players who (ab)use the reach of their weapon will just hit me, run back a bit as I try to hit them and hit me. If I chase too much, I get predictable and get kicked. If I don't, I just get killed eventually by missing blocks.

Option 2, well, you get the point.

So, if after reading this, you feel the urge to type L2P or something, please type out what you think I can do to improve instead or help me out a bit on the duelserver tonight (around 22:00 CET +1).
I personally think that kicking should not be a counter for shielders. We allready have mauls, axes and cavalry for that. Adding every other form of melee to the counter list would make shielders only (minorly) useful to protect against range (shields can be penetrated by bolts, you can be shot over/under/around the shield).

Welcome to 1h dueling

[Jarlek]

Didn't you know Spawny? 1h is OP and eazymode! 

[kinngrimm]

But even though you are good in predicting my kickslashes ( I saw yesterday at duel server) , I still had like 50% success rate and even 95% of the kickslashed that failed i just blocked your right or left swing and we continioud like before. It really has an risk<reward situation .

So at the time someone has your profound ability  to kickslash, he then has with every second of them a definite strike which hits the target. As a 2h you often kill me in 2 strickes as polearm in one as polestagger makes me immobile for even a little longer.
Your risk to not block 5%, doesn't sound any different to your normal blocks ^^ perhaps even less, as i am the dude who just got lucky by 50% perhaps is a bit carefull now to get close to you at all.

Over all, i see this as a trend and i also see that the overall skill level is climbing , which isn't a bad thing, with that in mind but there are may things turn out to be imbalanced which before weren'T used regularly and therefor couldn't be judged with that perspective.

[Gurnisson]

I personally think that kicking should not be a counter for shielders. We allready have mauls, axes and cavalry for that.

Cav is not a true counter, neither is mauls. I find mauls easiest to kill with a one-hander, by far. Cav can be dodged easily, a shielder can get a spear or throwing to counter them too. Axes I can agree on, they're a true counter to shields. Remove blocking from kicking for all that I care, kicking will still be good vs. players with short reach as it should be, but you have to be more skilled which is an improvement.

[Vodner]

Well, last week or so I was trying to improve my manual blocking a bit on the duel server. I usualy do that by fighting without my shield.
My main weapon is a broad one handed battle axe.

So...

I have 2 choices:
1. Stay back to avoid being kicked and I have to block 2-3 times for every attack I can make (read: an attack with my enemy in my range) and I get kicked as soon as I get close enough to hit. (Backpeddling 2h/polearm).
2. Stay out of his reach and run in the opposite direction.

When doing option 1, it's VERY hard to prevent getting kicked while also avoiding being kickslashed or outranged. Players who (ab)use the reach of their weapon will just hit me, run back a bit as I try to hit them and hit me. If I chase too much, I get predictable and get kicked. If I don't, I just get killed eventually by missing blocks.

Option 2, well, you get the point.

Use a longer weapon. Dueling a competent, fast opponent with a short 1h is an exercise in frustration (even if you have decent ath yourself). You can win, but you'll have to play pretty much perfectly - your opponent won't be nearly as taxed.

Try an ACS, NCS, KAS, or LEE (LEE is a fantastic dueling weapon).

[San]

The thing that annoys me is blocking range. Can't count how many times someone failed to kick me, and I try to hit their side or back and they just magically blocked it anyways. All that work avoiding and trying to punish to waste..

[BlindGuy]

Welcome to 1h dueling

this.


You must attack like a crazed mechanical ham slicer and constantly drive them back while ALWAYS trying to stay left or right of the bloody kick.

[Akynos]

I played 1H just long enough to have seen what is the impact of kicking.

First of all, I see you all consider kicking in duel.Where is battle gone? And siege? For me, shielder is not a 1vs1 class. It's a team-play class. You are at the front of the group, you push the enemy, you break his position, you take the spam of four enemies at the same time, and at the right moment, slash ! You decapitate your enemy with a fast left swing slash.

Kicks? ha. I have RARELY been kicked on battle or siege as a 1h. Why? way too dangerous. No one is willing to stay still to risk a kick in a melee. Heck, not even in melee, even in 1vs1 battle, only the top do that.

On duel, it's different. No multi, insta respawn, you take the risks. And no, kicking is not risk free. How many times have I missed a kick in duel, got circled and slashed? Not even talking about polestun in some cases which meant 2 free hits in addition.

Sure, you can block as a 2h, but kicking is an offensive tool. It's like complaining that if you miss your hit, you should be stunned because '' the weight of your weapon is too high for you to chamber again, the enemy should be able to have a free hit''.

As for shielders who get kicked, well, you are at a disadvantage there, true. But you can take ranged head on, you can take the hits of three guys at a time, you have no chance of block misdirection. So what compensates for these three advantages? Short reach, increased weight and no block after kick.
Seems fair to me

[Xant]

Use a longer weapon. Dueling a competent, fast opponent with a short 1h is an exercise in frustration (even if you have decent ath yourself). You can win, but you'll have to play pretty much perfectly - your opponent won't be nearly as taxed.

Try an ACS, NCS, KAS, or LEE (LEE is a fantastic dueling weapon).

It still depends on your opponent. I find that Arabian's the only 1h long enough to really be completely viable - i.e the right slash is long enough to reach most people who try to backpedal and sneak in another hit. Even then someone with enough agi and a long polearm/2h will be able to attack 2-3 times per your attack quite often.

[Ronin]

I played 1H just long enough to have seen what is the impact of kicking.

First of all, I see you all consider kicking in duel.Where is battle gone? And siege? For me, shielder is not a 1vs1 class. It's a team-play class. You are at the front of the group, you push the enemy, you break his position, you take the spam of four enemies at the same time, and at the right moment, slash ! You decapitate your enemy with a fast left swing slash.

Kicks? ha. I have RARELY been kicked on battle or siege as a 1h. Why? way too dangerous. No one is willing to stay still to risk a kick in a melee. Heck, not even in melee, even in 1vs1 battle, only the top do that.

On duel, it's different. No multi, insta respawn, you take the risks. And no, kicking is not risk free. How many times have I missed a kick in duel, got circled and slashed? Not even talking about polestagger in some cases which meant 2 free hits in addition.

Sure, you can block as a 2h, but kicking is an offensive tool. It's like complaining that if you miss your hit, you should be stunned because '' the weight of your weapon is too high for you to chamber again, the enemy should be able to have a free hit''.

As for shielders who get kicked, well, you are at a disadvantage there, true. But you can take ranged head on, you can take the hits of three guys at a time, you have no chance of block misdirection. So what compensates for these three advantages? Short reach, increased weight and no block after kick.
Seems fair to me

Exactly my thoughts.

Besides let's do not forget if a shielder is concerned of getting kicked in duels, he may actually try to use the thrust attack before complaining here. Assuming you have a sword, or stablike weapon. In my opinion, axes, maces and picks make weak duelling weapons that they have short reach and no thrust attack already. So use them in crowded servers more often.