[OFFICIAL] Community Petition to Nerf Horse Crossbowmen

[TugBoat]

Love these threads.  Lets nerf a class because 2 players play it effectively!  Honestly, please tell me who these mysterious horse crossbowmen are who are always the last alive and causing games to drag on forever?  Rohypnol is pretty much the only one that does this.  I do this maybe once every 4 or 5 rounds.  Who else?  I rarely, if ever, see any other horse crossbows survive to be the last one on their team alive. 

Lets look at some of the desired changes:

-Lets greatly reduce the accuracy of the HX?  Obviously spoken by someone who has never tried the class.  The only thing more challenging accuracy wise in this game would be HA.  If you suck in the slightest at archery or ground crossbow, you wont break a 1:1 KDR as a HX. 

-How about damage?  It takes 3 shots to kill most people, and when it rains (and it rains frequently) ... damage is gutted by like 50-60%. 

-Don't let them reload unless they are moving super slow!  Yeah... let me fire 1 shot for piddly-dick damage then run and hide so that I can reload without being a massive sitting duck.  That sounds like a plan.

-Reduce horse speed when horse is wounded.  You do know dude, that the horse dies in 2 arrows/bolts.  Sometimes 1 depending on where it is hit.  It is 1 shotted by a long dagger glancing its legs.  I don't think this is a relevant/needed change because arabians die fast enough.

-Don't allow reloads when bumping players.  I can understand that you hate this Lastkaze.  I've done this to you myself haha.  I honestly wouldn't care if this were changed.  It is really only productive to do this to ground xbows.

I strongly urge players who ask for the nerfs to crossbow cav to actually play the class.  Try it for a gen or on a STF alt.  Attempt to even get 10 kills in the duration of a map (Vast majority of people wont).  Every player I know that has done this has had a change of heart about their feelings towards the class.  After trying it, they understand how challenging it actually is. 

If you really want to stop the rounds from taking so long, petition for MOTF to spawn automatically at a certain time... say 2:00 on the clock.  Or based on percentages of players alive.  This would solve your problem of long matches without nerfing a class that 99% of the playerbase sucks/would suck at. 

TL:DR ~ Do not nerf a class because 2 players in the entire community are good with it.

Due tot he success of Rohyp there have been many imitators lately who I can not name due to their unoriginality and easy to forget nature who have been alive at the end of the round, with no kills, who have wasted tons of time. There is actually a complaint post around here somewhere that I posted in when we vote banned him for delaying.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happy. I play a lot in the early morning when there's 20-30 people in the server and I've seen plenty of HXBows delay.

Fact remains that you can't argue with what I said about cav balance. They do not have the risk involved with lancing cav, they do not have the ammunition issues of normal horse archers, they just keep running and running forever and ever at full speed. If you are smart, or a coward, or a troll, it's easy to be last or near last alive on your team and drag the match out. It has too many bonuses and not enough draw backs.

[ROHYPNOL]

I think this is funny because i know the person in general you are talking about is me... nor do i have the perfect aiming or riding you are talking about because im a 10/24 build... so all those statements are false.. and its really funny comparing lancers to horse xbow as if the 2 should be compared at all.. lancing is by far easier and rack up way more kills doing so.. really there is not much to say about this thread other than.. do not complain about something only a couple people are good at and something you have never done or if you have done it you obviously are no good at it.. sometimes there is nothing you can do about a persons skill level in the game.. if a person is good he is going to consistantly kill you so plz dont complain about it.. that goes for everyone.. not being specific to one person.. thanks you have a wonder day ragers

oh and delaying isnt being consistantly the best person on your team fyi.. if you cry about dying and having to wait there is a solution.. dont die or go to seige

[Imapanda]

Horse X-bow doesn't need to be nerfed, ROHYP just needs to write us all a nice little guide on how to be a good horse x-bower and how to avoid them. :p

[Leman_Russ]

Tugboat, what I don't get is how you are this incredibly dense.  The people who you complain about delaying, with 0 kills, wasting time will be no different whether or not you nerf xbow cav.  DELAYERS WILL DELAY.  Your nerfs wont cause any issue for the bad players, they will still be useless and delay.  Accuracy nerfs, speed nerfs, whatever the fuck nerfs wont change anything with the scenario you described.  The only thing that needs to be changed is forcing MOTF to spawn with 2:00 or 1:30 left on the clock.  Thats it.

[Harrys Oil Can]

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,30008.0.html

[TugBoat]

I think this is funny because i know the person in general you are talking about is me... nor do i have the perfect aiming or riding you are talking about because im a 10/24 build... so all those statements are false.. and its really funny comparing lancers to horse xbow as if the 2 should be compared at all.. lancing is by far easier and rack up way more kills doing so.. really there is not much to say about this thread other than.. do not complain about something only a couple people are good at and something you have never done or if you have done it you obviously are no good at it.. sometimes there is nothing you can do about a persons skill level in the game.. if a person is good he is going to consistantly kill you so plz dont complain about it.. that goes for everyone.. not being specific to one person.. thanks you have a wonder day ragers

oh and delaying isnt being consistantly the best person on your team fyi.. if you cry about dying and having to wait there is a solution.. dont die or go to seige

Obviously you didn't read my post at all and you're just taking it upon yourself to belittle everyone else and talk about how grand you are.

You are excellent Rohypnol, no one is arguing that, and no where in my post did I mention good players at all, and being last one alive definitely does not make you the best person on your team.

Rohy you are only helpful to your team when you are playing 2h or lancer cav (sometimes on lancer cav). The rest of the time you leech and don't contribute to anything significant. Unfortunately that's a fact. Prancing around on your horse far away from the real battle while trying to shoot is not contributing to your team's win, and the fact that you in no way put yourself in danger does not make you the best on the team. You just run away and then pick off stragglers near the end of the match, plain and simple.

That being said, the post was NOT about anyone individual. It is about the class itself not having enough balance. I listed the risks and rewards of the various classes. horse Xbow is all reward, no risk, and since it does not require you to be anywhere near an opponent, with nearly unlimited ammunition for the period of time that the game lasts, it is just unfair and disrupts the flow of the game.

[Rumblood]

You could explain why you're posting -1 instead of just doing it? There are several things that cause horse xbows to interfere with a good solid well rounded well paced multiplayer gaming experience and all you have to say is "-1" without any reason?

-2

[TugBoat]

Tugboat, what I don't get is how you are this incredibly dense.  The people who you complain about delaying, with 0 kills, wasting time will be no different whether or not you nerf xbow cav.  DELAYERS WILL DELAY.  Your nerfs wont cause any issue for the bad players, they will still be useless and delay.  Accuracy nerfs, speed nerfs, whatever the fuck nerfs wont change anything with the scenario you described.  The only thing that needs to be changed is forcing MOTF to spawn with 2:00 or 1:30 left on the clock.  Thats it.

Lemun, what I don't get is why you feel the need to insult people because you do not take the time to understand their argument fully. Don't post here if you did not read what I typed fully. If you did not understand something let me know and I can explain it to you in terms that you can understand. Any of the nerfs that I have suggested and most of the nerfs that others have suggested will facilitate in removing the horse xbow's ability to RUN AWAY so effectively.

The delaying won't be occurring if their horse is slower, they can't use a xbow on a horse, they can't reload on a horse, the stamina suggestion, or any of the many other ideas that have been listed by other players. It is impossible to hunt down a horse xbow without any ranged (and even with, sometimes) as it stands, and with the changes I suggested it will be much much easier thus fixing the flow of the game.

I'm not going to respond to any more of your posts if you insist on being rude.

[TugBoat]

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,30008.0.html

Rohyp's killing ability does not scare me or bother me. What bothers me is seeing him or any of his imitators prance around in circles at the end of the mission wasting time when we could have started another match.

[Spanish]

Rohy you are only helpful to your team when you are playing 2h or lancer cav (sometimes on lancer cav). The rest of the time you leech and don't contribute to anything significant. Unfortunately that's a fact. Prancing around on your horse far away from the real battle while trying to shoot is not contributing to your team's win, and the fact that you in no way put yourself in danger does not make you the best on the team. You just run away and then pick off stragglers near the end of the match, plain

Well that's a load of crap. First off if he was leeching he would be banned for it and Ive seen him go 17-1 on a map before so if that's not contributing, maybe you should be banned for leeching because I don't remember you pulling anything like that.

Secondly he isn't invincible and jus cause he can run away doesn't mean he can't be killed. Most of the time someone gets the jump on him and he gets dehorsed or I get lulled into chasing him and get him or I get dehorsed. Point being if doesn't have a good k:d its because he's being countered which is what you want right?

Thirdly the "risk" part I think definitely comes in when they are taking shots at people the closer they get more likely they can hit them and this is especially true for fighting against other cav you miss hitting another cav your just asking to get dehorsed by him because they will just continue to chase you down.

This all comes from playing as a HA with 8 riding and champion Arabian, even with that I get caught quite often by other cav

[MrShine]

no, horse xbow are fine. pick up a ranged sidearm.

[Leman_Russ]

Well that's a load of crap. First off if he was leeching he would be banned for it and Ive seen him go 17-1 on a map before so if that's not contributing, maybe you should be banned for leeching because I don't remember you pulling anything like that.

Secondly he isn't invincible and jus cause he can run away doesn't mean he can't be killed. Most of the time someone gets the jump on him and he gets dehorsed or I get lulled into chasing him and get him or I get dehorsed. Point being if doesn't have a good k:d its because he's being countered which is what you want right?

Thirdly the "risk" part I think definitely comes in when they are taking shots at people the closer they get more likely they can hit them and this is especially true for fighting against other cav you miss hitting another cav your just asking to get dehorsed by him because they will just continue to chase you down.

This all comes from playing as a HA with 8 riding and champion Arabian, even with that I get caught quite often by other cav

Theres no point in debating with him.  He is of the same mind as Slamz and his lot that only play infantry.  They tend to make up shit because they get repeatedly killed by HX and can't do anything about it.

For instance:
-Prancing around away from the real battle, avoiding danger... obvious bullshit.  Spectate for 1 round and you can tell thats a lie.
-Leeching and not contributing...  Topping the scoreboards almost every map.  Clutching the round against the odds frequently.  Guess thats not contributing.

Do you know how we generally play HX?  We do our best during the round to eliminate as many ranged as possible.  This isn't difficult because the majority of ranged players are focused on shooting peasants to boost their KDR.  Then when the round is towards it's end, there are less ranged to counter us.  Its called strategy friend.  Try convincing your ranged players to shoot our horses down instead of shooting Joe_Peasant. 

Oh and "you didn't read my post fully" reply.  Option 3 dude.  "drastically reduce accuracy".  Why would this be an option?  Its already significantly more challenging than ground xbow/archery.  This would only really fuck the 2 people who are causing all the hate by killing you.  Which leads to my initial assertion: you are angry at being repeatedly killed by HX and want it to stop.

I would love to hear a reply regarding forcing the MOTF to spawn at 2:00.  If delaying is your main gripe (which i doubt), then problem solved right?  Or is it simply your goal to ruin the class that you are personally unable to counter?

[Herkkutatti]

Xbow cav OP?!?!? What is this i don't even....

[Smithy]

It would appear this thread has turned into a "hate on Rohypnol" and "Bash anyone who doesn't agree with you" Fap-Fest.  To actually address what Tugboat has presented in his opinion to be a genuine problem, mayhaps arguing over how annoying or how skilled one player is against another is not the right direction we need to be headed in.  What needs to be done is people need to stop arguing and submit factual information supporting where they stand, rather than the needless flow of insults and subjective, biased opinions about how they 'feel' towards one play style or another.

I play every class.  I have a character supporting every 'main role' (I even have a Horse-Crossbowman) and thus I believe I can offer an objective view for everyone to consider.  Horse-Crossbowman are rather annoying, yes but that does not warrant a 'nerf'.  Realistically thinking however, (Although I do not know the real life specs of the crossbows in game) it would not be physically possible, for a Horse-Crossbowman to exist in real life for several reasons.  One, it would not be possible for someone to pull the string into it's locked back position with one hand, unless you had a ridiculously small "Pistol-Crossbow" which would probably not even pierce armor, thus rendering it useless in my eyes.  Two, even if the person is strong enough or the crossbow is weak enough for reason one to be possible, it would not be possible to ride the horse as effectively while reloading considering you would have to hold the reins with your teeth or just not at all. Three, the galloping motion of the horse would most likely throw off your loading the bolt into the crossbow, and considering the design of the crossbows in game, in a realistic setting, misfires would be common, due to the 'trigger' being a sort of lever.

I am in no way trying to say I know more than others, I am simply presenting the information that I have on how crossbows work (and don't work, for that matter) in an effort to push my standing in that reloading while on horseback should not be possible.  Thank you for taking the time to not TL;DR this.


Stolz

[Largg]

Couch damage is not affected nor boosted by PS which is another bullshit but that's another thread.

Yes it does. Like normal attacks couching damage is affected by strength and weapon proficiency.

Forgot to mention it, PS influences it as well.

It's just lovely how sure people are about things without knowing anything about it.

On the HX thing, I really can't see what's the problem. Any decent archer or horse archer will eat the class as a breakfast. I've played a decent amount (lvl 30 alt) of HX and the way I see it is a fun but not terribly efficient class to play. Sure I'm surviving to the end of the rounds most of the time but the damage output I'm giving is just weak. If I'm lucky I might get as many kills as playing a lance cav casually.

I guess the main thing that pisses off is the delaying? What surviving people on the opposing team should learn is not to chase cav. I mean if the cav are not complete idiots they always decide when they want to fight. Chasing the cav only gives them the advantage. Just camp with what's left of you and dodge bolts if no cover is there.

ps. I think it's good manners to surrender as HX if you're facing impossible odds (5+).