Equalize kicking in general

[Spawny]

Allright, after spending some time in the duel server again, I got nicely reminded why I don't go there often.
It get's me frustrated to a rather large degree by several things.

One of those things is the difference in kicking ability between players with shield and player without shield. Since I'm a shielder I play most of my time with a shield and thus never kick unless I'm VERY certain it will be a hit (ladders/staircases/etc).
For some reason, you can't block while kicking when using a shield when kicking.
You can block while kicking when you're not using a shield. (Save the downblock)
This makes kicking for a 2h/pole without any real risk, while a shielder can expect to be hit when he misses.

My suggestion is to equalize kicking for everyone. If shielders can't block while kicking, others can't either or do it the other way around. Nobody can block while kicking.

I know it's a bit of a rant on my part, as it allready takes all my effort to keep my footwork right to avoid being outranged/hiltslashed and stuff only to get kicked cuz I had to step towards my enemy due to the short range of my weapon.

[CrazyCracka420]

I don't see it as a rant or rage thread....

Personally I think they should remove the ability to kick while blocking.  But that's just my opinion (certainly not based on realism), but then again a lot of hand to hand fighting would include some forms of grappling. 

[Bjord]

Some inputs:

1. Don't facehug and the source of your frustration will vanish.

2. Risky implementation, could either virtually erase the kick which will dull combat down more than it already is or make it an interesting challenge to succesfully land a kick. Either way, I disagree with the no-block part. Why not instead turn kick into a shield bash? It exists in some mods I reckon, which ones escape me however.

3. The kick is not as lacking in risk as you want it to sound as, and if I may also point out that according to you, the reason kick should be "fixed" is because you are too often kicked in the duel server. If this is true, then this whole suggestion of yours becomes insignificant and almost irrelevant as I assume the balancing is not based on the duel mode(which is a minimal part of cRPG) but rather the battle mode. In that sense, kicks are incredibly risky. Yes it affects shielders more but uhhhh, do I really need to clarify?

You already have a shield. You don't have to worry about projectiles and block directions. If you want to be able to kick while blocking simply unequip your shield and voíla, you are as free as a pincushion.

Don't complain when you're playing the easiest class in the mod, and especially not about something as insignificant as kicks.

[HUSTLER]

Agree kicking an blocking at the sametime is bullshit 

Granted it takes some skill but when acquired .......

[EyeBeat]

Some inputs:

1. Don't facehug and the source of your frustration will vanish.

2. Risky implementation, could either virtually erase the kick which will dull combat down more than it already is or make it an interesting challenge to succesfully land a kick. Either way, I disagree with the no-block part. Why not instead turn kick into a shield bash? It exists in some mods I reckon, which ones escape me however.

3. The kick is not as lacking in risk as you want it to sound as, and if I may also point out that according to you, the reason kick should be "fixed" is because you are too often kicked in the duel server. If this is true, then this whole suggestion of yours becomes insignificant and almost irrelevant as I assume the balancing is not based on the duel mode(which is a minimal part of cRPG) but rather the battle mode. In that sense, kicks are incredibly risky. Yes it affects shielders more but uhhhh, do I really need to clarify?

You already have a shield. You don't have to worry about projectiles and block directions. If you want to be able to kick while blocking simply unequip your shield and voíla, you are as free as a pincushion.

Don't complain when you're playing the easiest class in the mod, and especially not about something as insignificant as kicks.

You are an idiot.  It does not matter if you don't face hug they can manual block through kicks.  I dodge kicks all the time and they can just manual block.

A shielder will never have range because all their weapons are short as hell.  Not to mention all 1 handers glance for no reason at all.  Target can be right in front of you and you will glance and it is not a strength issue.

Shielders are easy as hell to hit from the side.  I had someone manual block a hit while I was directly behind them.  Manual blocks activate almost all around a persons body.  Shields are easy to get around with the crazy 2 h swing animations the game has and all that S keying.

[Jarlek]

Either both should be able to block or none should. A guy with a shield still wont get a huge "advantage" because of the shorter weapons they usually have, and for the hoplites, well nobody in their right mind would complain that giving them some help with kicking is gonna imbalance them.

Also: lol at the "shielder is the easiest class".

[Kansuke]

ADD SHIELDBASH NAO !

[EyeBeat]

ADD SHIELDBASH NAO !

I would rather them buff the kick length slightly.  And make it so you can not manual block during kicks.

[Bjord]

Right, you start an argument with an insult. If anything, you're the idiot.

He said he kept getting kicked in the duel servers and I simply suggested he avoid face hugging so much. How the fuck has that to do with manual block? If you dodge the kick, good for you. If he blocks your attack while he's kicking, too bad. This occurrence doesn't change regardless of class so I fail to see how this is in any way relevant. Note: he was frustrated over getting kicked, not because he was super awesome at dodging them only to have his counters blocked. And in case you didn't know, you cannot block thrusts while kicking. Maybe you should learn how to play before you come start whining.

And all I see in the rest of your post is butthurt 1h. Cry somewhere else about how you lack skill, not in the suggestion boards.

PS: Easiest does not have to mean "most rewarding" to be considered easy. There's a reason why so many new players choose shielder.

[bredeus]

Good idea Spawny !

[Xant]

There's a reason why so many new players choose shielder.

Which is not because it's the easiest class, because it isn't. Especially not for new players. They're best off with long, high damage weapons. New players who play shielders are just useless since they lack both range and damage and can't get any use out of the shield since they're not familiar with the combat mechanics and when it is and isn't their turn to attack.

[Bjord]

What is easier than not having to manual block? In this instance, I deem survivability to correlate with level of difficulty. A shielder will easily make it through the initial skirmishes of a round while it is considerably harder as a shieldless class.

I'm not saying it is easy to do well as a shielder, in fact I can agree with the underlying sentiment, it's goddamn annoying and frustrating. But the fact of the matter remains, easy and if you choose to not make an effort, you can. While the length of your weapon has no value because eventually you'll have to rely on how well you manual block and this alone decreases your survivability(and in turn, increases the difficulty). This completely ignoring how vulnerable you are to every ranged class, pikemen, lancers, 1h cav, HA and others.

[CrazyCracka420]

Some inputs:

1. Don't facehug and the source of your frustration will vanish.

2. Risky implementation, could either virtually erase the kick which will dull combat down more than it already is or make it an interesting challenge to succesfully land a kick. Either way, I disagree with the no-block part. Why not instead turn kick into a shield bash? It exists in some mods I reckon, which ones escape me however.

3. The kick is not as lacking in risk as you want it to sound as, and if I may also point out that according to you, the reason kick should be "fixed" is because you are too often kicked in the duel server. If this is true, then this whole suggestion of yours becomes insignificant and almost irrelevant as I assume the balancing is not based on the duel mode(which is a minimal part of cRPG) but rather the battle mode. In that sense, kicks are incredibly risky. Yes it affects shielders more but uhhhh, do I really need to clarify?

You already have a shield. You don't have to worry about projectiles and block directions. If you want to be able to kick while blocking simply unequip your shield and voíla, you are as free as a pincushion.

Don't complain when you're playing the easiest class in the mod, and especially not about something as insignificant as kicks.

most of this post is garbage, except for possibly the 2nd half of your 2nd point. 

The OP points out that you can manually block and kick, but can't kick while shielding.  Clearly something is wrong there.  Why would they be able to block while kicking but you can't with a shield?  If that's the case implement a shield bash.  I think they should just remove the ability to kick while blocking.

[Xant]

What is easier than not having to manual block? In this instance, I deem survivability to correlate with level of difficulty. A shielder will easily make it through the initial skirmishes of a round while it is considerably harder as a shieldless class.

I'm not saying it is easy to do well as a shielder, in fact I can agree with the underlying sentiment, it's goddamn annoying and frustrating. But the fact of the matter remains, easy and if you choose to not make an effort, you can. While the length of your weapon has no value because eventually you'll have to rely on how well you manual block and this alone decreases your survivability(and in turn, increases the difficulty). This completely ignoring how vulnerable you are to every ranged class, pikemen, lancers, 1h cav, HA and others.

What does not having to manual block help when you get killed anyways the moment you try to attack? New shielders are THE easiest kills and in addition they contribute the least to a team and are the least dangerous because of the lack of reach and damage. Only thing they would be 'good' at is backpedaling while holding right mouse button which does nothing for the team... and you can't exclude usefulness from the equation or the "easiest" build is a HA with 13 riding who's chilling at the edges of the map.

A long polearm or a 2h would be much easier and much more effective since you get to attack from further away plus when you hit that lucky swing/backslash you do considerable amounts of damage. Shielders are also the worst against cavalry contrary to what you say.

I'm not in favor of the OP though, it's retarded. The reason you can't block while kicking with a shield is because then the kick would truly be a no-risk move. When you kick without a shield you cannot block thrusts for a small while and you can still get your manual block wrong.

[Phew]

I did 6 gens as polearm (3 w/Great Long Bardiche then 3 w/ Long Bardiche), and now I'm wrapping up my 3rd gen as a shielder, so I'll chime in on the "what is easier" debate.

I never really bothered blocking as polearmer, just wear good armor, backpeddle and hack away. I averaged a respectable 2.2:1 KDR and was pretty much always top 3 on my team in kills (I only play siege, for what it's worth).

Despite having a 6 generation advantage over when I started playing as a polearmer, I'm having a much rougher go as a shielder. Maulers crush me, axe users break my shield in 3-4 swings, my thrusts and right swings always glance, my light 1h sword always gets me stunned when blocked by a heavy 2h/pole. I'm lucky to pull 1.5:1 KDR on siege. I can't imagine how awful it would be playing a shielder with no looms or experience. Reach and high damage is the way to go if you are new to the game.

Back on topic, it's dumb that 2h users have the advantage at a distance AND up close vs shielders. Their swings glance less at all ranges, and they can block and kick at the same time. Shielders should have the advantage in toe-to-toe fighting, i.e. shield bash (when implemented) should be better than kick and 1h animations should glance less.