AGI needs some love back.

[Z_E_N]

I hope you realize that the game intentionally prevents "spamming people" as an option in all but the most extreme speed difference cases, such as great maul overheads.

I agree, someone with an average wpf and wm/agi should never be spammed.  However, someone who takes the "risk" of 3 agi 0 wm should have a disadvantage.  As it is right now, 3 agi is actually an advantage.  A 39 or 36/3 character has a HUGE advantage compared to a 24/15 or 18/18.

Why should someone with a 3 agi actually have an advantage because they chose to dump everything in strength?  It should be balanced with disadvantages.

You might as well just get rid of weapon master entirely, because as of now it makes no difference. 

Prepatch we had problems added on that made it absurd.

Wpf carryover from earlier gens giving high str characters insanely fast attack as well.
Very high level 40+ characters that had high stat advantage giving them the same.

Now there is no wpf carryover, and no insane level differences, so why can't weaponmasters be finesse fast attackers?  They graze half the time anyway.

[Gurnisson]

Quite the opposite: archers should have a reticule as wide as pre-patch xbowmen (maybe even wider)...in other words: they shouldnt be able to hit shit but when they do it should do some proper damage

Meh, no fun in that. With a very wide reticule and good damage the good archer will be nerfed, while the noobs will be buffed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that sucks.

[Raskolnikov]

First,  AGI no longer has any passive boosts.  We all believed it increased attack speed, and it used to, but Walt-F4 disproved that in another thread.  STR gives both a slight damage increase (was this ever proved?) and HP boost.

Even if we do know that it does not affect attack speed, we still do not know for a fact that it has no passive boosts, do we?

Surely it could be affecting block speed, attack recovery speed or feint (well, chamber) speed?

[Stormcrow]

Weapon points sould definitly affect youre ability to use a weapon. Right now you need zero wp to use a 2h sword. This is why ppl chase archers only to be killed by a flamberge. Someone with 0 wp should be significantly slower than someone with 150 wps.

[Havoco]

It is fine as it is now. There is a noticeably big difference in 0 wpf to 100. Even 0 to 50.

[Z_E_N]

Weapon points sould definitly affect youre ability to use a weapon. Right now you need zero wp to use a 2h sword. This is why ppl chase archers only to be killed by a flamberge. Someone with 0 wp should be significantly slower than someone with 150 wps.

Exactly.

It is fine as it is now. There is a noticeably big difference in 0 wpf to 100. Even 0 to 50.

I'd like to refer you to Walt-F4's study here:

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2531.0.html


If you look at the graphs, you will see that most weapons don't even gain a 0.1 second speed increase between 0-50 WPF.  You may think it helps, but numbers don't lie.

Some weapons don't even get a 0.1 second speed increase until 140 WPF. 


Oh, the best part is, full STR characters with 0 WM can have 113 WPF at level 30.  AGI characters have around 140-160 at level 30.  Extreme AGI ones have 190 at most, but do no damage and glance all the time.  So at most an extreme no-damage AGI character has a 77 WPF advantage, which is about 0.05 second speed difference.

[corto]

it sucks.

i played a 5 pdraw 8 weaponmaster archer with 170 wpf -> couldnt hold the string of the strongbow for longer than 0.25 . that was annoying, as u are forced to shoot without thinking or really aiming. just poining to the ememy and fire.

quite accurate in this "instant" fire mode, but it doesnt make fun and it makes teamkills almost normal because u can't aim carefully.

so what now? forget all bows above kergit?
or get 7 pdraw and have about 150 wpf what makes a Warbow useless in my eyes. its a fast type of xbow with these stats.

so archers need some love.. but not more damage. more damage would make plate completetely useless.

i want a smaller reticule when i am lvl30 - and i dont see why there is a longbow no one uses.

archers shouldnt be forced to be another type of xbow by stacking pdraw instead of useless high wpf.

people cry because of tk's archers do, but have u ever thought about firing 40 arrows every round and never having a reticule that is closed enought to make it sure that u cant hit ur mates?

[Paroxysm]

There's more to battle than just attack speed. Having 3 AGI means you have 0 or 1 athletics, which severely gimps your footwork. Yes athletics was proved in the other thread to have a negligible effect on max run speed while wearing armor, however what it DOES do very well is increase your acceleration and that's what matters in the heat of combat. Footwork in a melee is all about darting in/out of range, encircling, dodging strikes - with 1 athletics you are a brick shithouse, you better be good at manual blocking because, for example, it will be very hard to sidestep an overhead when you move so slow.

I don't get why people say athletics is gimped unless your whole MO is to try to chase down archers, it has a definite tremendous effect on your ability to use footwork effectively.

And that's why AGI, although it still needs a small boost, isn't quite as bad as everyone thinks it is.

[Galgorth]

I agree completely with the OP. AGI is terrible right now. I used to play an 18 STR /21 AGI build and have since migrated to a 24 STR / 12 AGI build. I did decently well before, but now I dominate. AGI characters especially tend to die in 1 or 2 (max) hits when they try and fight me. Their marginally quicker extra swing speed and slightly faster footwork doesn't compensate for the fact that they have to hit me twice as many times as I have to hit them in order to score a kill.

[Vicious666]

i was 18 str 33 agi  pre christmas.

now  i play 21-21  or 18-18        or even 24-18



agi suck and with new wpf formula is even more gimped

[corto]

lol my stats were almost same.

18/31 at the highest.

seems that was quite the best build in the old system, if a melee and a archer choose same.

[ThePoopy]

lol @ thread

[ViiKOLD]

I'm really not sure how Walt-F4's study represent other agi related things such as blocking. For example, on my 30/9 build I've noticed that changing block direction goes twice as fast as setting block from "neutral" position, I've never experienced such with 15/24 builds. Blocking with 30/9 after 15/24 is a bit hard for me, difference in wpf 110 - 170, maybe it's subtle on graph, but I'm sure that graph dosnt show whole picture.

[Banok]

I agree with OP in the problems but idk if what suggested is the best solution.

either way my 30 agility pure katana ninja is totally gimped, unfortunately will prolly never reach retire and respec him ;).

on the other hand my 30 str guy is awesome even without barmace.

[Kharn]

For the record,  Agility DOES increase swing speed.   Ive done crpg testing, it goes up clearly.

+3 AGI =  +20 WPF
For swing speed increases

That said...

The new WPF scaling system is yet another thing that is "forced equality"

Where everyone has roughly the same WPF and armor.    The problem it causes in this situation is that  the same AGI is less valuable,  while STR is still just as valuable.

The update just gimps AGI builds.....which was never needed, they were weak to begin with.