Hybrids need nerf?

[Tears of Destiny]

I would greatly prefer to buff specialists then nerf hybrids.

[Torp]

i also think this would result in less camping, as people wouldnt want to camp without a ranged weapon. Now everyone has xbow or throwing, so camping is fine for everyone

[Tears of Destiny]

i also think this would result in less camping, as people wouldnt want to camp without a ranged weapon. Now everyone has xbow or throwing, so camping is fine for everyone

*Thinks of the Acre xbow camp team on EU*

[Ichi_Uiabuu]

I think my main is possibly more hybridized than anyone else in the game, and I still think that PS should be the difficulty for melee weapons.

[MouthnHoof]

wpf was nerfed for a reason - getting it up to 200 is a bad idea.

The only issue is with the effectiveness that every Joe can get with a secondary xbow/throwing. There is absolutely no reason NOT to carry an exbow unless you want to collect more gold. There has to be a negative side to them so a pure melee character will not want to carry an xbow and hybridization will be difficult (mind you hybridization in melee skills, 1H/2H/pole is not a problem).

* Put -2 PS, -1 riding and -1 athletics on a crossbow (can be done) and nobody will carry it unless it is his main weapon. Dedicated xbowmen can still drop it to the ground and loose the penalties if they want to switch to full melee (I doubt many will bother to drop and collect it many times in a frame)
* Make ALL throwing weapons above rocks require lots of PT. A realy thrower has no problem to go over 4-5 PT. For the others investing 5 PT just to throw a dart is a bit too much.

[Native_ATS]

I would greatly prefer to buff specialists then nerf hybrids.

+1

[Native_ATS]

wpf was nerfed for a reason - getting it up to 200 is a bad idea.

The only issue is with the effectiveness that every Joe can get with a secondary xbow/throwing. There is absolutely no reason NOT to carry an exbow unless you want to collect more gold. There has to be a negative side to them so a pure melee character will not want to carry an xbow and hybridization will be difficult (mind you hybridization in melee skills, 1H/2H/pole is not a problem).

* Put -2 PS, -1 riding and -1 athletics on a crossbow (can be done) and nobody will carry it unless it is his main weapon. Dedicated xbowmen can still drop it to the ground and loose the penalties if they want to switch to full melee (I doubt many will bother to drop and collect it many times in a frame)
* Make ALL throwing weapons above rocks require lots of PT. A realy thrower has no problem to go over 4-5 PT. For the others investing 5 PT just to throw a dart is a bit too much.

to fix throwing +2pt to all low teir throwing, +1pt to axes-lances

[Brutal]

There is absolutely no reason NOT to carry an xbow unless you want to collect more gold.

Yea 14 000+ gold of upkeep (heavy xbow+ steel bolt) is absolutely no reason,  especially when you total budget must not exceed 35 000 gold to break even.
That's why absolutely nobody complain about upkeep.
Not to mention the 25 wpf lost in melee to get 100wpf in xbow.

No reason at all...

[MouthnHoof]

Yea 14 000+ gold of upkeep (heavy xbow+ steel bolt) is absolutely no reason,  especially when you total budget must not exceed 35 000 gold to break even.
That's why absolutely nobody complain about upkeep.
Not to mention the 25 wpf lost in melee to get 100wpf in xbow.

No reason at all...

Only most people who carry xbow as a secondary will take one of the lighter xbows for a couple of thousand $ and they will not invest anywhere near 100 wpf in it.

They Xbow and thrower hybrids that I am talking about are very light hybrids because both xbow and throw do not require much wpf to be useful. Xbow damage is just how much money you are willing to invest and throwing damage will come with a moderate investment in PT (no need for 10 there to do serious damage). Accuracy is not required if you are shooting from close range or blindly into a crowd.

[Brutal]

Even if you use a light crossbow + steel bolt it's more than 7000 gold for an inaccurate weapon with low damage, low projectile speed and long reloading time, where you will have to stand still at close range leaving you exposed to all the ranged of enemies all that for a bolt that will only sting a little. With 7000 gold you can use elite armor instead of mail.

Somebody with 5 PT throwing axes will need at least 3 axes in the body to kill you if you ve decent armour and he will have terrible accuracy, he still have invest 5 skill point that could be spend elsewhere. 5PT could be 5IF that's a 20% increase of hp for a 15 strength build.

Seriously this thread should be renamed "let's make it impossible for people to use ineffective builds"

[Spawny]

Even if you use a light crossbow + steel bolt it's more than 7000 gold for an inaccurate weapon with low damage, low projectile speed and long reloading time, where you will have to stand still at close range leaving you exposed to all the ranged of enemies all that for a bolt that will only sting a little. With 7000 gold you can use elite armor instead of mail.

Somebody with 5 PT throwing axes will need at least 3 axes in the body to kill you if you ve decent armour and he will have terrible accuracy, he still have invest 5 skill point that could be spend elsewhere. 5PT could be 5IF that's a 20% increase of hp for a 15 strength build.

Seriously this thread should be renamed "let's make it impossible for people to use ineffective builds"

I think the OP meant it the other way around.

You can be a very effective xbower with 100 wpf in crossbows and put all the rest into a melee weapon of your choice without sacrificing a lot of functionality in melee combat.

Having only 80 or so wpf in a melee proficiency doesn't really hamper your fighting capabilities. All you need are some manual blocking skills and footwork. Maybe add in some PS to hurt people and you're a perfect example of a hybrid.

[ShinySpoons]

My hybrid has at least 100 wpf in 3 weapons, yet I'm playing him as a pure 2hander atm and doing quite well scorewise. If I wanted to, I could play pure 1h/shield or xbowman and probably do equally well. Other than having a lower ps then I'd like, I really haven't sacrificed anything in terms of my killing potential by being having a hybrid. Rather, if I played as an actual xbowman/2hander I'd be even more effective.

So, there is very slight negatives to being a hybrid atm (minor sacrifice of stats/skills), and very high positives (effective in most situations).

[El_Infante]

I think that the problem is not crossbowers or archers. The problem is the ranged-spam-fest that all servers have. You can't walk ten seconds without being spammed by arrows, flying axes and bolts.

[Rhade]

I think that the problem is not crossbowers or archers. The problem is the ranged-spam-fest that all servers have. You can't walk ten seconds without being spammed by arrows, flying axes and bolts.

Yep. Every server I play on is a range fest, literally 80-90% of my team almost every time I play has some sort of range weapon and everyone has a melee weapon just in case people get close to their camp spot. It's pretty silly that the hybrid is pretty much the only viable build, everything else feels like trying to *force* something to work simply because you want to, not because it's effective.

Playstyles have seemingly been forced to become range first, melee second and only if you absolutely HAVE to. Pretty boring, I'd rather play BC2 if I wanted to shoot people all day. It's really an exponential problem: inf you can counter with inf or range, the only way to counter range effectively is by range. Don't say "omg go shield", 2 archers can easily pick 1 shield apart, yet 2 shielders cant take 1 archer down as he'll simply run and let the rest of his team shoot you (and cav strafe you). Pretty ridiculously one sided. This problem only gets worse faster as more and more range is introduced and the problem is more and more exacerbated and pronounced, leaving only one way to respond to it: get range yourself. All emphasis now seems to be ranged, with melee only being an afterthought. It's pretty frustrating the way the trends are going when most of the skill and uniqueness of the game lies in the melee system, not in the less-than-average ranged system.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

I am all for hybrids, though I play allways "pure".
Hate range as well, but it shouldnt be nerfed too hard. Would be perfect if there were simply less ranged players, but how to force this? Limit range weapons per match? i dont know...