Author Topic: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance  (Read 4097 times)

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Offline Vexus

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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2012, 11:12:41 am »
0
When you give cav the possibility to 1 shot, there will be many that will abuse it.

True Story.

Offline Wookimonsta

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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2012, 01:53:49 pm »
+1
a) its not always a one shot. The slower horses get quite a bit less damage

b) it works the other way too. The speed bonus makes cav VERY vulnerable.
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2012, 01:58:34 pm »
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Couching is not the problem. That's a risky move which is mostly rewarded with a one-hit, fair enough. The problem is that some infantry/archer can dodge the couched lance but that the cav can still magically hit him if he bumps and throws over the lance to the other side to couch with the shaft of the lance.
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2012, 02:04:21 pm »
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Couching is not the problem. That's a risky move which is mostly rewarded with a one-hit, fair enough.

Care to explain?

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2012, 02:06:04 pm »
0
When you charge someone head on, it is risky. If you rape someone in the back like some true bastard, it isn't. :)
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2012, 02:11:53 pm »
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maybe if we give back lancers their old turning rates and make them not made out of glass, cav will actually go back to fighting people instead of just sneak attacking everyone.

NA cav fight differently from EU cav. They actually attack frontally, sometimes :shock:

Also they use cav formations. Not the shit GK does, go after one guy and bump him so he can't stand up. No. NA cav play differently and when they attack at least 10-15 enemies end up dead.

Also their best cav are way better than our best cav. Our cav are bump masters and couch heroes, there isn't more than five active cav left on EU servers that deserve to be called cavalry.

I'll just name few that aren't playing regularly and some that quit: Kerrigan (rarely see him), Leed (quit), Torben (rarely plays), Tommy (rarely see him), Ujin (he's on horse once in thousand games), Oberyn (seems to me that he quit cRPG)...

What is left is Chagan and his minions. While Chagan is a good cav, most of his clannies are bump masters and couch heroes. And most are terrible when de-horsed.

You remember what happened on last cav tourney, when there wasn't infantry to be bumped and couched from behind, what happened to glorius EU cavalry :lol:

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2012, 03:22:42 pm »
0
Look, i've been a lancer a LONG time. And this shit rarely happens to me, same with bumpstab with the lance.
When it happens, it happens by accident to me. Maybe there are some people who can do this on purpose, but are there really that many?

Same.  I've only ever played heavy lance cavalry in c-rpg (as my main playstyle).  I've never bump stabbed or bump couched someone on purpose, it just happens sometimes where I'll miss the couch but bump the guy as I'm turning and my couch will connect with them.  It feels gimmicky and I feel guilty afterwards, but I've never intentionally done either.

I think the lance radius is too small, but I prefer it to having the 270 degree radius from before.  I think especially when you are stopped you should be able to turn your lance completely perpendicular to your body.  Also would be nice if you could turn your hands over and stab down when you're stopped on the horse.

a) its not always a one shot. The slower horses get quite a bit less damage

b) it works the other way too. The speed bonus makes cav VERY vulnerable.

Both good points.  Even on my champion courser I'd say 1/4 or 1/5 couches don't kill either because the person is running the same direction as my horse, or because they have heavy armor on.  I can get 1 shot pretty easily on horse from infantry builds who have more than 6 power strike when I'm riding 30mph at them.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 03:26:47 pm by CrazyCracka420 »
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Offline Vexus

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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2012, 03:33:47 pm »
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I don't see couching really so risky when you can cancel the attack.

With enough riding and the ideal horses even if your target moves, so can you.

Offline Matey

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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2012, 04:33:28 am »
0
BAN CAV

Offline Kafein

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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2012, 06:42:00 pm »
+2
Happens once over 100 successfull couches, and is barely possible to do intentionally. And even the few cav that manage to do that more or less intentionally put themselves at a great risk doing it. At least it compensates for a tiny part of all the couched lances that got through the enemy's model without registering for some obscure reason.

NA cav fight differently from EU cav. They actually attack frontally, sometimes :shock:

Also they use cav formations. Not the shit GK does, go after one guy and bump him so he can't stand up. No. NA cav play differently and when they attack at least 10-15 enemies end up dead.

Also their best cav are way better than our best cav. Our cav are bump masters and couch heroes, there isn't more than five active cav left on EU servers that deserve to be called cavalry.

I'll just name few that aren't playing regularly and some that quit: Kerrigan (rarely see him), Leed (quit), Torben (rarely plays), Tommy (rarely see him), Ujin (he's on horse once in thousand games), Oberyn (seems to me that he quit cRPG)...

What is left is Chagan and his minions. While Chagan is a good cav, most of his clannies are bump masters and couch heroes. And most are terrible when de-horsed.

You remember what happened on last cav tourney, when there wasn't infantry to be bumped and couched from behind, what happened to glorius EU cavalry :lol:

You got a point, but I'd like to see how NA cav does when confronted to EU inf and ranged though. The rare moments I played cav on NA servers, it felt much easier because people aren't flies using jetpacks over there. The 1st reason I tend not to charge aware people is because even shielders like myself have the required foot acceleration to dodge even the most maneuverable horse, and it gets way worse with ranged, often with >7 ath and extremely light armor. The more predictible the target is, the better for the cav. So it ends up with the best tactic being attacking people that are unaware.

Attacking frontally is extremely problematic in many cases, because you get shot and outranged by 2h and pikes. I guess it can work if you got a lot of cav teammates with you and coordinate your charge though. But with the EU cav pop being so scarce, the usual tactic consists in waiting for the melee fight to begin and attack the flanks/rear of the enemy team.

Its also related to the horses we use. NA top cav use armored horses, which offer the advantage of having okay maneuver at slower speeds, but also resist damage and capable of charging at people in front of them (even if it makes zero sense, in this game people can stop horses trained for war by standing in front of them, this stops with charge damage above ~34). The problem with nimble horses is that if you slow down too much, you get hit more often, and that's a critical problem. This is also why we don't charge often over here. When you have positions guarded by 2 or more archers, you can expect your horse to die before killing anyone, if you are alone.


Care to explain?

A couche lance is easily dodged. Even with a 1h you can retaliate with a right swing at the horse's legs. Whenever I'm on foot and someone tries to couchlance me, I do that and usually kill the horse. Now, couching unaware people is a whole different story of course. The risks are there, but they depend on the tactical situation.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 06:45:24 pm by Kafein »

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2012, 07:13:50 pm »
0
+1 to your post.  One correction, and one additional note about something you said:

Correction: 
Quote
NA top cav use armored horses

I don't think that was ever true.  Armored horses were more prevalent for a while after they made coursers from 4 to 6 riding, but I think the top cav were pretty much always on coursers or destriers.  Now it's mainly coursers and arabians. 

Addition: 
Quote
But with the EU cav pop being so scarce, the usual tactic consists in waiting for the melee fight to begin and attack the flanks/rear of the enemy team.

That's most cav's tactics, anywhere.  I believe that was how they were used a lot throughout history as well.  I don't get why people in other threads are complaining that cavalry is being used in the most logical (and historically accurate) way possible.

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Offline Rumblood

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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2012, 11:28:13 pm »
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I don't see couching really so risky when you can cancel the attack.

With enough riding and the ideal horses even if your target moves, so can you.

Try to couch me. I shoot your face off or slam a speed bonus arrow into your chest and sidestep your pony on the opposite side of your lance. Or headshot your horse. If you break off in time to avoid it, you were never in a position to couch me in the first place.

Unless you are Cyranule. Fuck you Cyranule!  :P

Oh yeah, as Leshma pointed out that the cavalry train also gets me as I dodge the first lance, but step into the path of the 2nd  :oops:
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 11:31:14 pm by Rumblood »
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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2012, 08:47:40 am »
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There is no way to remove this, unless the dev remove the bump damage

Offline Bulzur

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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2012, 08:56:24 am »
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There is no way to remove this, unless the dev remove the bump damage

Then, what are they waiting ? :rolleyes:
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Re: Bumpcouching with Heavy Lance
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2012, 09:08:41 am »
-1
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The only way to do it intentionally is with the double side lance, its fun to do against shielders. It is however difficult but completely reasonable. Its 1) realistish 2) skillful.

What I find much funnier is when you survive the couch and get killed by the bump.

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