Ideas for next gen: 3-skill hybrid? UPDATED: Works great!

[RamsesXXIIX]

4. IMPORTANT: Strategus viability - I want to play a character that will perform well in Strategus battles.

I think your build looks fine and good, i'd drop the 2hander wpf but you seem to be in love.

Anyway, about the quoted part: This is the reason you will need more shield skill. While normal battles don't require much shield skill (You can pick up other shields lying around, after all), it is really need in strategus. When waiting around as infantry (Which you do a lot), you'll take quite a few arrows. Also, some factions like to employ massive use of long voulges, which will be a true menace to your shield.

In short, drop 1-3 more IF and put them in shield.

[Stokes]

I think your build looks fine and good, i'd drop the 2hander wpf but you seem to be in love.

Anyway, about the quoted part: This is the reason you will need more shield skill. While normal battles don't require much shield skill (You can pick up other shields lying around, after all), it is really need in strategus. When waiting around as infantry (Which you do a lot), you'll take quite a few arrows. Also, some factions like to employ massive use of long voulges, which will be a true menace to your shield.

In short, drop 1-3 more IF and put them in shield.

This is good advice, I think I will end up dropping the IF in favor of shield skill. IF seems to be the kind of skill that you either load up on or forego, since having 2-4 extra hitpoints is nothing. Having 10+ starts to make a difference, but even then only very situationally. Also, shield skill increases your block speed and reduces attack speed penalties, correct? (I'm actually more concerned about this than how long my shield lasts, tbh)

And yes, I think build-wise dropping 2h is the "smart" choices, however, like you said, I can't bear the thought of loosing my 2h. This is probably going to be my "final" generation as I don't really have the time to grind up to 31 over and over or make alts over and over. That said I want to be able to do at least two of my favorite things: Two-handed spamming and horseback lancing.

I know roughly what wpf I need in order to be comfortable with those because I have characters that specialize in polearm and 2h already. What I have NOT yet played in cRPG is 1h + shield, which I'd like to try. I think I'll just have to "borrow" my roommate's character for a bit to get the feel of 1h + shield in cRPG and to see if it's worth splitting my points for.

If I find that 1h + shield is suitable to my playstyle and I enjoy it enough to not miss 2h then I may go this route and simply play 1h and polearm. Like many have said, there are many polearm weapons that behave similarly to most 2h weapons. (A part of me really wants to prove that a 3-way split will work, however, haha)

[tankmen]

my alt RP character is a 4 way split XD, hes only level 23 but hes fun as hell

15/13(rest into agi probly)

5 PS
4 ath
5PD
5PT
4WM

1h:60(i use a kyber knife n find i can easliy out spam most people now to master chambering)
polearm:60(i use the throwing spear in melee which i find is fast enough to keep up, very short but im used to face hugging cause i played AvP)
archery:101(i use the nomad bow and khergit arrows, i find i do jack shit but then so does every other archer ingame XD)
throwing:29(i get most my kills with this if i hit, which isnt hard 1v1 but multiple people i run out fast since i only carry four


this is off the wheel of time series Aiel a race of nomads

[RamsesXXIIX]

Also, shield skill increases your block speed and reduces attack speed penalties, correct? (I'm actually more concerned about this than how long my shield lasts, tbh)

Yes, it increases block speed and reduces attack speed penalties, but its like horse archery skill. There are no more penalties to remove after 5 (Or so i've heard) and personally, i can't feel the difference after 4 shield skill. I do just fine with that.

If I find that 1h + shield is suitable to my playstyle and I enjoy it enough to not miss 2h then I may go this route and simply play 1h and polearm. Like many have said, there are many polearm weapons that behave similarly to most 2h weapons. (A part of me really wants to prove that a 3-way split will work, however, haha)

Note this: You don't have to have a high shield skill to perform well in cRPG as 1h+shielder, but in strategus you do (At least, this is my experiences)

Anyway, i think you should go for the 3-way build. Just to prove its possible and can keep up with dedicated classes. And i would like to know your results btw, this interests me a bit ;)

[Spawny]

In the past weeks I've been experimenting a bit with using weapons without proficiency in them and I was amazed.

It's not so much as a weaponclass that doesn't need wpf, but more certain weapons.
The bec de corbin for instance is perfectly useable without wpf. Same goes for the battlefork, just to name another example. I couldn't get outspammed but by some agility stackers and even against them I could win by turning into swings more.
The nodachi on the other hand felt really sluggish without wpf. It felt the same when lancing from horseback without proficiency.

With some proficiency however, it doesn't really matter how much. After about 100 you won't get outspammed (which is the only reason you need it) and having 21 agility makes you even faster.
All you want to be is fast enough to counter after a succesfull block.

When playing a 1h/shielder you need to find yourself a 100+ speed weapon or you'll have serious trouble attacking back with just 100 wpf. Since you said you wanted to use the shorter weapons, having 7 athletics is more of a necessity rather than an option. Most players will figure out your movementspeed rather fast and all they have to do is jump back and slash as you try to counter if you're slow with a short weapon.

The build you made looks very good. Don't worry too much about your shieldskill, you have solid backup choices in case it breaks. Should give you time to look for a new one on the battlefield.

[Stokes]

Alright, well I think I'm gonna go for it with my next retire: The three-way split.

My leveling strategy right now is to play for a while at my lowest capacity and then spend points after testing for a while. What I mean is I'm not going to level any proficiencies above 100 for a while. In fact I'll probably keep everything around ~80 for a while. If I find that a specific weapon class needs a boost, then I'll invest a small amount of points to test the kind of boost I'm actually getting. Once I hit a "sweet spot" where I find I can perform well, I'll start to transfer points elsewhere.

This is looking to be a fun build!

And yes, I'll keep this thread updated for those who are interested in my progress.

[EliteDragon]

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 15
Agility: 21
Converted: 2
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 3
Athletics: 7
Riding: 7
Weapon Master: 7
One Handed: 95
Polearm: 148

Here you go. Heirloom a Masterwork Yanmadao and you should be fine speed and damage wise. Since you only want to lance occasionally, I recommend a War Spear so you don't have a shield penalty when you're equipped with your Knightly Heater Shield. When you're on a cav map, use a Courser, otherwise use a Rouncey.

Hope you have as much fun experimenting with it as I did building it.

[Stokes]

Necro-threading! Yay!


In all seriousness though I just edited the front page with my findings. I know a few people were curious to see how this 3-skill hybrid idea would work out, so after having played this build for a while now and after receiving some pms about it I decided to update this thread on the front page.

Gooood luck out there.

[Gorath]

I've been playing two 3 weapon hybrids since the patch and my build is somewhat similar to yours, 1 being cavalry enabled, the other pure infantry:

Cav (Vyrus_PxC)
18/18
PS 6
Shield 5
Riding 6
Ath 6
WM 6

1h  100
2h  100
Pole  100

Infantry (Gorath_PxC)
18/18
IF 6
PS 6
Shield 5
Ath 6
WM 6

1h 100
2h 100
Pole 100

Thing is, with the new slot system, as you said, I don't bring one of each weapon all the time.  I'll swap out depending on what we're facing from the other team.  Lots of cav and archers = 1h/shield/spear.  Not so much on one or the other and I'll swap out 1h/shield or spear for my 2her, etc.  HOWEVER:  I have been thinking about heirlooming either a langes messer or fighting axe since they both can toggle between 1h/2h, which would allow me to bring essentially a 1h/2h/shield/spear.

As for 3-weapon hybrids (I used to be higher pre-big-patch 1h/2h/pole/x-bow/throwing, ah, good times) they're fun, and they work but as you said you are at a statistical disadvantage vs any pure and in any duel which means you just have to flat out play better than everyone.

[RamsesXXIIX]

Good to see it was viable in the end! However, i must correct myself about a comment i gave to you:

Yes, it increases block speed and reduces attack speed penalties, but its like horse archery skill. There are no more penalties to remove after 5 (Or so i've heard) and personally, i can't feel the difference after 4 shield skill. I do just fine with that.

Note this: You don't have to have a high shield skill to perform well in cRPG as 1h+shielder, but in strategus you do (At least, this is my experiences)

Anyway, i think you should go for the 3-way build. Just to prove its possible and can keep up with dedicated classes. And i would like to know your results btw, this interests me a bit ;)

There are no attack speed penalties from using a 1h with a shield.

Source: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,118906.msg2872758.html#msg2872758

[Kafein]

Good to see it was viable in the end! However, i must correct myself about a comment i gave to you:

There are no attack speed penalties from using a 1h with a shield.

Source: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,118906.msg2872758.html#msg2872758

The attack recovery speed varies greatly however. On some occasions a shielder can have a very short time window to block after a blocked swing. And a blocked stab will usualy mean the end, since like for 2h the stun is extremely long on blocked stabs.

[RamsesXXIIX]

Truly, as i said in the post earlier.

[RandomDude]

I think i might try a 1h/2h hybrid next time I retire. Being able to switch to sword and board would of saved me many times - for defence and for shorter weapon with no building blocking me. This means no flamberge while im carrying the 1h/shield but... I can live with it maybe.

I thought polearms wpf was unnecessary for horseback?

[MouthnHoof]

...
This means no flamberge while im carrying the 1h/shield but... I can live with it maybe.

You can have the flamberg, but you must use it first. If you pull out another weapon it will drop, and you can pick it up later - it means that you cannot advance with a shield under missile fire and bringing it along, but if you tank one spot it will be close to you.

I have a 1H/2H hybrid and next gen will be 2H/pole. I do not mind the slot and sheathing limitations because I usually play them one role at a time and switch between rounds. The other use is for some specific weapons that have an alt mode I can make use of (Langes messer / fighting axe, 2H swords when I go pole/2H).

My problem with the 3 way split is the required skill points rather than wpf. By giving up 1H I can save a few points in Shield and use them for max IF or conversion to get another PS into the build.

[RandomDude]

You can have the flamberg, but you must use it first. If you pull out another weapon it will drop, and you can pick it up later - it means that you cannot advance with a shield under missile fire and bringing it along, but if you tank one spot it will be close to you.

I have a 1H/2H hybrid and next gen will be 2H/pole. I do not mind the slot and sheathing limitations because I usually play them one role at a time and switch between rounds. The other use is for some specific weapons that have an alt mode I can make use of (Langes messer / fighting axe, 2H swords when I go pole/2H).

My problem with the 3 way split is the required skill points rather than wpf. By giving up 1H I can save a few points in Shield and use them for max IF or conversion to get another PS into the build.

For me, dropping the flamberge means leaving it for dead and id rather not have to mess around trying to find it in amongst the dead bodies and discarded items of my enemies.

I think i'll use an alt to test the build out maybe.