Ideas for next gen: 3-skill hybrid? UPDATED: Works great!

[Stokes]

EDITED POST:

A couple months ago I proposed ideas for a 3-Skill hybrid. If you want to see the original post, you can look at the spoiler at the bottom. Here I'd like to present my findings so far. Having played around with the build I've finally come to a hybrid that works well and is great fun to play. I know some people were interested in how the build worked out, and just the other day I got a pm from someone asking how the build worked so I decided I'd ressurrect the thread for those who are interested.

Anyways here is the build I use:

Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Skills to attributes: 2
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 5
Athletics: 6
Riding: 6
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 110
Two Handed: 88
Polearm: 101

I found that one handed takes the most wpf to be effective, in my opinion, so I made that the highest. Second I placed points into polearm, since I planned to spend a lot of time on horseback with a lance. Third I place my points into two-handed, since two handed takes the least wpf points imo.

I chose to go 18/18, and only 6 weaponmaster because I found that being able to hit harder with the extra powerstrike was more important than getting a few more points of weapon proficiency. You could do 15/21 if you wanted, but your weapons, especially one-handed, glance a lot more. 6 athletics is a must, in my opinion, and 6 riding is great fun, but not necessary if you aren't going to be on a horse very much. I made this build with foot combat and horse combat in mind, however.

As far as equipment I tried to use faster equipment to compensate for lower wpf. My favorites so far have been the bastard sword, the italian sword, the light one-handed battle axe, the longspear (pike), and also the beastly long voulge. The morningstar is great fun too, although it breaks all the above rules by being slow and short, but it does so much damage and just looks badass!

Pros:
1) You can do anything, use any weapon. It's great to be able to pick up anything on the field and use it
2) Versatile: you can change up your role instantly
3) Fun! It's hard to get bored when your character does everything! (except ranged, but meh).


Cons:
1) Dedicated two-hander builds with massive wpf and a good player behind them will have a clear advantage. Seriously take these guys on with a team or be careful, they're faster than you.
2) Not a dueling character. You will be gimped if you try to duel builds meant for one on one combat. Imo this only makes you a better player, as you learn to win without the crutch of better stats.
3) New slot system really messes with hybrids, so you cant bring your best 1h, polearm, and 2h at the same time anymore.


Anyways I hope this gives people ideas and encourages creative people who can't stand the thought of being keyholed into one single playstyle to experiment. With this build you don't have to create a bunch of alts and can focus all your gold and experience in one place, which is nice. With the slot system it's not like hybridizing really gives you any massive advantage on the battlefield: instead it gives, (imo) a massive advantage in FUN, since you can use any weapon you want.


OLD POST BELOW - FROM MARCH:

(click to show/hide)

I'm coming up on my next retirement and I want some feedback on a build I'm looking to do. I have an idea for a 3-way hybrid: polearm, 2h, and 1h, but I have no idea if it'll flop on the battlefield. I expect to get out-statted occasionally by the agi-spammers who put all their points into one weapon, but I also expect to be able to perform well in general. I'm not interested in making a dozen alts, each with all wpf in one weapon. I'd like this character to be the one and only character that I play: My go to character for all my melee needs. I have an Archer alt if I ever get the urge, but I want this guy to be able to do the rest: On foot or on horseback. I also want to play strategus eventually, which means playing as a team.

First off, some guidelines for what I'm looking for:

1. Versatility: I want to be able to switch up my strategy and equipment on the fly.

2. Playability: I want to be effective on the field and not feel like I'm gimped. Sure, I won't be as effective as the guy who put all his points into 2h, but I want to be able to fight him nonetheless.

3. Mounted and dismounted: I want to be able to play both - I want to play as a lancer

4. IMPORTANT: Strategus viability - I want to play a character that will perform well in Strategus battles.


So, right now I'm running a 15agi/21str build with 129 wpf in 2h and 122 wpf in Crossbows. I love the 15/21 split but after playing for a while I see some ways to improve my skill-point allocation. I also really dislike the Crossbow in cRPG and I want to transfer my Xbow wpf into another melee category. Also 2h is loads of fun for duels and small battles but I get the feeling that in order to be effective in Strategus as Melee you need shields, pikes, and the like.

So here comes my dilemma: Two handed is by far my favorite weapon style: fast and deadly... I just can't bear to drop it. Unfortunately I really want to be able to play as a mounted lancer on occasion, which requires polearm, but I have been watching the good sword-and-boarders and I've become really inspired to play a sword-and-boarder for those occasions when it's just not safe to drop the shield and start whacking people.

So on to the numbers:

According to Vargas calculator, (which I'm not even sure is up-to-date on wpf costs), with 21 agi and 7 weaponmaster I can muster up the following 3-way splits with some points left over to put wherever I want:

120/100/100
110/110/100
130/100/80

For 2h I'm going to use primarily a tempered bastard sword, for 1h I'd primarily use small fast weapons, like a nordic short sword, or scimitar, or other quick, fast weapon. I'd also be using a Knightly heater shield for the speed. Polearm would mostly be restricted to pikes and other far-reaching weapons on foot and lances on horseback.

The question is, how should I split up the wpf points, and will I be totally gimped for doing so? Right now I know for a fact that 129 points in two-handed with a bastard sword is perfect for me. Very fast, and very effective. I'd be willing to drop 10-15 wpf points  (and all my xbow points) in order to pick up 1h and polearm though. The question is, will I be effective as a 1h with ~100-120 points and will I play an effective lancer/piker with the leftovers in polearm?

Here is my current build (With notes on what I like and don't like about it)

(click to show/hide)

Strength   15  (Some people swear by str only builds or agi only builds or balanced builds, but I find a 15/21 split fits my playstyle perfectly)
Agility   21   


One Handed   1   
Two Handed   129   (129 is fine for me. I never feel like I'm being out-statted in duels.)
Polearm   1   
Archery   1   
Crossbow   122   (Dropping crossbow - I don't like the style)
Throwing   1   

Ironflesh    5               (Ironflesh will be the first to go if I need MOAR POINTS)
Power Strike   5   
Shield   3               (Worried that 3 shield won't be enough for 1h, but idk)
Athletics   3               (One of the major flaws of my current build. With 21 agi I should be taking advantage of athletics more)
Riding   4               (Can ride medium cav, it's all I need)
Horse Archery   2       (I played around with horse-xbowing. It's fun, but impractical: These points are being reallocated)
Power Draw   0   
Power Throw   0   
Weapon master *7

Here is my proposed build for my next generation (Which I need feedback on)

(click to show/hide)

Strength   15   
Agility   21   


One Handed   110   (Is 100-110 in 1h too gimped?)
Two Handed   124   (124 means I'll be still be able to duel, but perhaps 1h could use the extra points?)
Polearm   80   (I feel polearm needs the least points: I'll only really be using this for lances and pikes. I have an archer alt with 90 polearm and 18 agi and he performs fine with a pike/spear on foot)
Archery   1   
Crossbow   1   
Throwing   1

Ironflesh   3   (Less ironflesh to boost athletics to 7. Good choice?)
Power Strike   5   (No compromising on PD!)
Shield   3   (3 shield. Fine for 1h? Remember I wont be using huscarl, but the lighter knightly heater)
Athletics   7   (Mobility is great... but is 7 necessary?)
Riding   4   (Need at least 4 for medium horses)
Horse Archery   0   
Power Draw   0   
Power Throw   0   
Weapon master *7

Help me out guys! Especially you sword-and-boarders! I have yet to make a sword-and-board character so I need the most advice here.

[weight]

I would drop the ironflesh and put the points in to shield skill, 6 hp is not that much and with only 3 shield skill you'll be slow with a shield and it will break in 1-2 axe hits.

[Cyclopsided]

Weight is right, 3 IF won't be much of a difference but 3 more shield skill will be.

[Trikipum]

good luck with that build, decent dedicated 2h will eat you for breakfast.

[DarkFox]

good luck with that build, decent dedicated 2h will eat you for breakfast.

No.

One Handed   110   (Is 100-110 in 1h too gimped?)
Two Handed   124

I suggest to make 100 in 1h and have more skills in polearm or 2h,or you can have few points in xbow,why not?
Actualy I tryed many builts and hybrids were the most effective and fun.Playing as a pure 2h or 1h I didnt felt like I have some really big advantage.Having the posibility to use many weapons give you big tactical advantage,you are ready for any situation.

[Tai Feng]

with only 3 shield skill you'll be slow with a shield and it will break in 1-2 axe hits.

Norman shield requires only 3 shield skill.

[bruce]

1h with 3 shield skill is pointless, 5 is really minimum for coverage especially with the kite/heather type shields. And it is slow... but really, people can shoot you from the front with 3 shield skill.

[Noble Crassius]

So I take it all you nah sayers to the three shield skill have tried this build extensively? Cause I have and using a heavy round shield unless some one was using an axe it would last the whole round. Even then an axe usually took 3-4 hits anyways which seems to be the average for all shielders.

3 shield skill with an elite cav shield is what I'm rolling with now and it's perfectly fine, your shield breaks more often sure but then manual block once or twice spam them to death and go find another shield on the ground these plenty of them. I've only been shot from the front once and that time I might have let go of the rmb I'm not sure.

Read the topic a bit more, your knightly heater will get scrapped really really fast. I agree with the people above drop the IF put em in shield.

[bruce]

There's a massive difference in coverage between kite-type shields and round-type shields. Namely, round-type shields have a lot more. Buy a knightly heather instead of elite cav with 3 shield skill, and you'll see the difference.

[La Makina]

Once I tried to play a 1H-polearms-xbow character, it was fun to be adaptive but I had hard times in melee: c-RPG favors over-specialisation too much. I finally dropped this character.
My best advice: increase first one weapon skill to the top before increasing the others.

[Tristan]

you don't need the 2h ability. Focus on polearm and one hand, as polearm has a lot of weapons that offer you the same as twohand. No need to waste points there.


So my advice is to something like 140/100 whatever on 1h/polearm.

Y

[PikeDan]

I've already done something like this with an 18-18 build. IIRC It was 100 Polearms, 110 1h and 70ish with crossbow, also 4 Riding and as much Ironflesh and WM/PS as I could muster.

[jspook]

you don't need the 2h ability. Focus on polearm and one hand, as polearm has a lot of weapons that offer you the same as twohand. No need to waste points there.


So my advice is to something like 140/100 whatever on 1h/polearm.

Y

Agreed.  Most polearms offer you MORE than a 2H.  They are faster, and all the top tier ones have more bonuses than the 2H against turtles.  they also afford you the reach to combat us pesky 2H players.  No point in doing both if you are already hybridizing.  If you are insisting on a 3 way then go cav or throwing as the third.  Cav would also complement the polearms, instead of detracting from it.

Edit:  I totally love my 2H as well, and will keep looming it.  Right now have 140/110 in 2H/Pole , so I can tell you that there isnt that much of a diff between the 2 classes.  I only went pole this gen so I could Great Long Axe those turtles when they are in force field mode.  It works great, but if I was a ded pole user, it would have been even better.  I definately feel the wpf difference, and if you want to stay on top, you should just stick with the polearms.

[Noble Crassius]

There's a massive difference in coverage between kite-type shields and round-type shields. Namely, round-type shields have a lot more. Buy a knightly heather instead of elite cav with 3 shield skill, and you'll see the difference.

I know this is why I don't use em Round shields really are the best shields

[Narthir]

The idea seems pretty cool, though maybe prioritizing your weapons might be the best way to go about three-way hybrid. Otherwise you'll get three mediocre weapon skills rather than 1 good weapon skill and two slightly below average weapon skills.

If you decide to go through with it, we should play together sometime so I can see how it works out!