Throwing Nerf

[Camaris]

Actually im lvling a pt-13 build too ;) I do it to just annoy everybody else *g*
Your luck that it is boring as hell and it will never be my main.

[Native_ATS]

just to point out the pro and cons of throwing, i done throwing for 13 gens, and i just rerolled for the frist time as a Crossbow user. (xbows are nice due to the fact they take only a little bit to use, for the frist time i have more then 9agi 

daggers-snowflakes 1-2pt(6str)
carry about 8,  low damg, high rate of spam. The higher the pt the more pin point they get, they will never brake a teir 2 sheild tho

javs-axes  3-6pt(9-18str)
carry about 4, high damg, avg spam They can and will brake teir 2 sheilds  takes 2-3 to kill a man.

throwing lances  7pt(21str)carry about 2, high damg, low spam, they can brake sheild  but a teir 2 shild will take 2-3 lances to brake, At 7 pt they wont one shot much, 30%-40% to 1shot a man but at  8-9pt is like 80% 

pros
1 throwing is a high str build, you will have a little extra hp
2 throwing is great counter to cav, ponys wont rush you when you can throw axes in them as they run at you/ as they run away.
3 2handers will have to dance around like chickens with there head cut off to not take a hit
4 if you get in on an archer he wont turn and run
5 you are king of mid-close range

Cons
1 high str = low agi
2 sheild peps will laugh as you throw all your weapons into there sheilds only to die by there hand
3 if that 2 hander gets in your face, kiss your ass good bye, you cant run, too slow, best bet it to fight and hope your just better or he is a noob who will hit at you and back up after (miley)
4 bow men will rape you at mid-far range, they have AIM,Range,Speed and we have Power
5 if you throw all your weapons you have to hope you can go pick some up,  Cant fight your best with jav-axes, Cant fight with daggers-snowflakes, Lances are avg
6 throwing close will sometimes not work at all, you can get bumbed! and you cna throw though the preson...like there where a ghost!

xbows are high damg, great aim, long range, low wpf and no skill points needed
Bows are low-mid damg, great aim, high wpf and Needs skill points to use
Throwing is high damg mid-close range, bad aim, need some wpf(i always get 100 or the weapon never gose stright) skill points need

How to fix the SPAM? Higher the PT cost of all throwing weapons,  low weapons by 2pt and higher teir weapons by 1 pt
daggers- snowflakes 3pt
jav 5pt
axes-throwing spear 6-7pt
Throwing lances 8pt

Dose damg need to be nerfed?I dont think it dose, i made a few post about this, with many other throwers and non throwers, not with people who cry and make a rage post cuz I killed them(miley)
it seems the main and bigest problem is that people throw because to use throwing weapons is so easy, not easy as in skilless, but easy as in low cost to be able to throw.
scrap 3 IF and you can throw jav? WTF thats BS!
--If damg is lowered dont go ape shit, take into count that throwing power rises it up by 7%
a small drop in damg is made up by the pt needed to weild it. so only a little drop is need if one feels its needed at all.

People crying about 1 hit kills are OP makes me laugh. You cant block a couch... that 1 hits, my long maul 1 hits and you cant block that, throwing lances 1 hit too but unlike the couch you can miss or hit and they just dont die. Also if you going to throw, you need a ton of str which rises your 1hit chance by alot. I run 10pt/10ps so i one shot people alot, throwing or melee
people cry "but ponys couch put them in danger" ponys are fast and tend to get away easy if they fail, throwers are slow as ballz and if they fail they are in melee range.
People have said no range should 1 hit kill, and when i hear this it makes me think that no melee should 1 hit kill, but they do so i belive this is blance. Also lances dont 1 hit kill alot with 7pt, like the xbow they 2 hit kill

i can rant more and more about throwing since i know it well, but i done this so much in so many diff post. Throwing is almost fine if not ok, i would raise PT and then it would be perfect. I dont die to spam spam throwers because i know the pro and cons.  If a thrower has a sheild he wasted skill points into sheild so his pt is low which means he dosnt have keen aim. If he has lances he dosnt have the speed or wpf to fight me off. i hope this helped some people learn more about throwing

[Spawny]

Played on my thrower again yesterday. There was some weird serverlag, so I couldn't hit anything. Ended up with a 2:8 kd ratio.

Switched to my polearmer with awlpike. (15/15 build atm) Finished the map with 11:2 kd ratio.

Awlpikes are OP. NERF!

[Zisa]

I think you just described what's wrong with throwing quite nicely.  Thanks.

take it out of context more please, lets not forget the reediculous 39 str for 13Power throw, leaving what, nothing for anything else? Did your team wheel the character out on a chariot? And nobody could hit this statue?

[Tears of Destiny]

take it out of context more please, lets not forget the reediculous 39 str for 13Power throw, leaving what, nothing for anything else? Did your team wheel the character out on a chariot? And nobody could hit this statue?

I play a 0 athletics archer and I usually die in melee and never range, amusingly enough. If the player is aware then you can dodge almost anything at range. I am not afraid to not let loose an arrow and instead put it away in mid-draw so I can dodge quickly to the side. Better to miss a shot and be safe then potentially hit your target and get stuck in return.

Though for a thrower being that slow, considering how close you have to be, I am rather surprised. Perhaps because by the time the character reached the front lines, everyone was distracted? This is how I am usually able to pick off targets with ease, because I am always in that 'second wave' (though some maps the second wave is not so much sneaky as it is obvious).

Regardless, next gen I am going pure archer and drop my 7PS and pick up some athletics. It was a nice experiment. It is funny though to pick up the 0 requirement throwing weapons and rip someone's head off with my str.

I do think that all throwing weapons should have a requirement of 1 besides rocks, or at the very least give those bizzare snowflakes a minimum PT. I would be happy if dedicated throwers were still viable, but hybrids were a little harder to make (make it where it is a forced decision, not a "oh I have three spare points to spend," make the wpf actually matter).

[UrLukur]

Played on my thrower again yesterday. There was some weird serverlag, so I couldn't hit anything. Ended up with a 2:8 kd ratio.

Switched to my polearmer with awlpike. (15/15 build atm) Finished the map with 11:2 kd ratio.

Awlpikes are OP. NERF!

Played my main thrower yesterday, Ended up with 15:0 kd ratio. (but true, there was lags like hell, nearly unplayable, thankfully i didn't played to enjoy the game but to grind).

I would love to see stacks cut in half (and weight adjusted).

Proper Throwing Axes
weight 2
requirement 3
spd rtng 97
shoot speed 16
thrust damage 38 cut
max ammo 2
weapon length 54
accuracy 102
Bonus against Shield
Secondary Mode

[Patricia]

just to point out the pro and cons of throwing, i done throwing for 13 gens, and i just rerolled for the frist time as a Crossbow user. (xbows are nice due to the fact they take only a little bit to use, for the frist time i have more then 9agi 

daggers-snowflakes 1-2pt(6str)
carry about 8,  low damg, high rate of spam. The higher the pt the more pin point they get, they will never brake a teir 2 sheild tho

javs-axes  3-6pt(9-18str)
carry about 4, high damg, avg spam They can and will brake teir 2 sheilds  takes 2-3 to kill a man.

throwing lances  7pt(21str)carry about 2, high damg, low spam, they can brake sheild  but a teir 2 shild will take 2-3 lances to brake, At 7 pt they wont one shot much, 30%-40% to 1shot a man but at  8-9pt is like 80% 

pros
1 throwing is a high str build, you will have a little extra hp
2 throwing is great counter to cav, ponys wont rush you when you can throw axes in them as they run at you/ as they run away.
3 2handers will have to dance around like chickens with there head cut off to not take a hit
4 if you get in on an archer he wont turn and run
5 you are king of mid-close range

Cons
1 high str = low agi
2 sheild peps will laugh as you throw all your weapons into there sheilds only to die by there hand
3 if that 2 hander gets in your face, kiss your ass good bye, you cant run, too slow, best bet it to fight and hope your just better or he is a noob who will hit at you and back up after (miley)
4 bow men will rape you at mid-far range, they have AIM,Range,Speed and we have Power
5 if you throw all your weapons you have to hope you can go pick some up,  Cant fight your best with jav-axes, Cant fight with daggers-snowflakes, Lances are avg
6 throwing close will sometimes not work at all, you can get bumbed! and you cna throw though the preson...like there where a ghost!

xbows are high damg, great aim, long range, low wpf and no skill points needed
Bows are low-mid damg, great aim, high wpf and Needs skill points to use
Throwing is high damg mid-close range, bad aim, need some wpf(i always get 100 or the weapon never gose stright) skill points need

How to fix the SPAM? Higher the PT cost of all throwing weapons,  low weapons by 2pt and higher teir weapons by 1 pt
daggers- snowflakes 3pt
jav 5pt
axes-throwing spear 6-7pt
Throwing lances 8pt

Dose damg need to be nerfed?I dont think it dose, i made a few post about this, with many other throwers and non throwers, not with people who cry and make a rage post cuz I killed them(miley)
it seems the main and bigest problem is that people throw because to use throwing weapons is so easy, not easy as in skilless, but easy as in low cost to be able to throw.
scrap 3 IF and you can throw jav? WTF thats BS!
--If damg is lowered dont go ape shit, take into count that throwing power rises it up by 7%
a small drop in damg is made up by the pt needed to weild it. so only a little drop is need if one feels its needed at all.

People crying about 1 hit kills are OP makes me laugh. You cant block a couch... that 1 hits, my long maul 1 hits and you cant block that, throwing lances 1 hit too but unlike the couch you can miss or hit and they just dont die. Also if you going to throw, you need a ton of str which rises your 1hit chance by alot. I run 10pt/10ps so i one shot people alot, throwing or melee
people cry "but ponys couch put them in danger" ponys are fast and tend to get away easy if they fail, throwers are slow as ballz and if they fail they are in melee range.
People have said no range should 1 hit kill, and when i hear this it makes me think that no melee should 1 hit kill, but they do so i belive this is blance. Also lances dont 1 hit kill alot with 7pt, like the xbow they 2 hit kill

i can rant more and more about throwing since i know it well, but i done this so much in so many diff post. Throwing is almost fine if not ok, i would raise PT and then it would be perfect. I dont die to spam spam throwers because i know the pro and cons.  If a thrower has a sheild he wasted skill points into sheild so his pt is low which means he dosnt have keen aim. If he has lances he dosnt have the speed or wpf to fight me off. i hope this helped some people learn more about throwing

Oh boy here we go, half the stuff you said is bullshit, I have a thrower sitting at 7 PT right now and my throwing lance does infact one hit kill anyone under 50 body armor, it also break fresh huscarls in 1-2 lances. I'm also pretty sure power throw adds 10% damage per levels, also adding 1-2 PT requirement wont reduce the spam, first of all, the throwing weapons will retain their speed so they'll be as spammable as before, second of all, going 24/15 for a thrower/2hander hybrid with 8 PT for throwing lances is extremely easy.

Oh, I also have to mention aiming and hitting anyone is piss easy, I played a 2hander/thrower hybrid for awhile with 0 prof in throwing and I could just chuck axes in everyone's back with no problem, on my current thrower I have about 60 prof and I can chuck lances in everyone's back with no problem.

[BlackMilk]

Oh boy here we go, half the stuff you said is bullshit, I have a thrower sitting at 7 PT right now and my throwing lance does infact one hit kill anyone under 50 body armor, it also break fresh huscarls in 1-2 lances. I'm also pretty sure power throw adds 10% 8% damage per levels, also adding 1-2 PT requirement wont reduce the spam, first of all, the throwing weapons will retain their speed so they'll be as spammable as before, second of all, going 24/15 for a thrower/2hander hybrid with 8 PT for throwing lances is extremely easy.

Oh, I also have to mention aiming and hitting anyone is piss easy, I played a 2hander/thrower hybrid for awhile with 0 prof in throwing and I could just chuck axes in everyone's back with no problem, on my current thrower I have about 60 prof and I can chuck lances in everyone's back with no problem.

[Native_ATS]

Oh boy here we go, half the stuff you said is bullshit, I have a thrower sitting at 7 PT right now and my throwing lance does infact one hit kill anyone under 50 body armor, it also break fresh huscarls in 1-2 lances. I'm also pretty sure power throw adds 10% damage per levels, also adding 1-2 PT requirement wont reduce the spam, first of all, the throwing weapons will retain their speed so they'll be as spammable as before, second of all, going 24/15 for a thrower/2hander hybrid with 8 PT for throwing lances is extremely easy.

Oh, I also have to mention aiming and hitting anyone is piss easy, I played a 2hander/thrower hybrid for awhile with 0 prof in throwing and I could just chuck axes in everyone's back with no problem, on my current thrower I have about 60 prof and I can chuck lances in everyone's back with no problem.

7pt dosnt kill every thing with 1 hit kill, you have your mind set on "am right" so  no matter what facts people put or share it dosnt get tho your head. if you can 1 shot a guy with 7 pt, u can 1 shot them in melee as well. spam isnt the problem, its how easy it is to use throwing weapons, your the my old friend i was talking about "0wpf"
also a teir 4 sheild dosnt brake in 2 lances unless there runing 4 sheild max and you have 10pt, also you wasted 2 to brake his sheild, boom stack gone, round sheild do take 2 lances as well at any pt, trust me,
unlike you i tested throwing alot. I'm not a bitch like you doing a 24/15 build with 0 wpf, Its throwers like you who suck but spam, making throwing see bad and skilless, learn some facts
Axes are low teir throwing, should cost 6-7 pt to throw axes but they cost like 4... easy to throw low teir axes, but form how you act i bet you only throw up close.
so raise PT to get rid of jokers like this kid, and the game will be a better place

[Seawied]

Oh boy here we go, half the stuff you said is bullshit, I have a thrower sitting at 7 PT right now and my throwing lance does infact one hit kill anyone under 50 body armor, it also break fresh huscarls in 1-2 lances. I'm also pretty sure power throw adds 10% damage per levels, also adding 1-2 PT requirement wont reduce the spam, first of all, the throwing weapons will retain their speed so they'll be as spammable as before, second of all, going 24/15 for a thrower/2hander hybrid with 8 PT for throwing lances is extremely easy.

Oh, I also have to mention aiming and hitting anyone is piss easy, I played a 2hander/thrower hybrid for awhile with 0 prof in throwing and I could just chuck axes in everyone's back with no problem, on my current thrower I have about 60 prof and I can chuck lances in everyone's back with no problem.

I love how people put arbitrary and false comments right off the back and backs it up with heresay and lies.

First off, you claim at 7 power throw, you say you kill "ANYONE" who has less than 50 body armor in 1 hit with a throwing lance. This is false. At 50 body armor, at power throw 7, as someone who has played extensively on both sides of the lance, this is not true. Unless it is a fairly lucky shot, you will survive a lance thrown at you from someone with power throw of 7, unless you have 0 IF and very low strength. If you have 0 IF and very low strength, this is your build's weakness, and you more than make up for it in other ways.

Huscarl shields break from 2 lances. Sometimes true. At the same time, look at the cost for one huscarl shield in your inventory and look at the cost of 1 stack of throwing lances in your inventory. They are both very expensive, but the shielder with the huscarl shield can survive without the shield. If this was your last stack of lances, you would be defenseless. I say its a fair trade off.

Thirdly: you claim PT adds 10% damage in C-RPG. This is false. Like power strike and power draw, PT only adds 8% damage per level. If you think that is overpowered, then complain about power strike as well.

adding 1-2 PT won't reduce the spam. False. Less availability= less abundance.  It would also give players incentives to play a different build, since building a hybrid thrower would be significantly more difficult. Remember: increasing the PT requirements by 2 is the equivalent of increasing a weapon's strength requirement by 6. This makes it much more difficult to use.

"Going 8 PT with lances and 2h is very easy." This is an opinion statement. I would say that couch-lancing is easy, or that archery is easy. Neither one would be a definitive fact. You might find throwing agreeable to your playstyle, but thats just you.

"Aiming is easy." Take a look at your aimer. It is the most inaccurate ranged weapon in the game. If throwing lances are easy to hit with, by golly, all ranged weapons are easy-mode. Lances are the most inaccurate, and one of the slowest projectile speed weapons in the game.

[bruce]

Thirdly: you claim PT adds 10% damage in C-RPG. This is false. Like power strike and power draw, PT only adds 8% damage per level. If you think that is overpowered, then complain about power strike as well.

Wrong. The stats are the same as in native (14% PD, 10% PT, 8% damage). Currently, there is no way to change what skills do, which is why with shields they went along the route of decreasing the base coverage instead of eg. lowering the % gain which shield skill gives to coverage (which led to insane epic forcefields where your back gets protected by a huscarl).

And yes, I used lances with 7 PT, and a lot of the people do in fact die with one hit, especially if you hit them while they're moving forward. 7 PT throwing lances with 80ish wpf - easily done by any hybrid - have the same damage as the old sniper crossbow with steel bolts, except with the slower projectile velocity they have less effective range, worse damage if the target is moving away and better damage if the target is moving towards you.

By the way, you're by no means defenseless when throwing lances run out - at that point you just switch to whatever melee weapon you're using. Durrr.

Btw, with 7 PT you're a hybrid. You can have 21/15 which is enough for any melee with 7 PT, and have 120 wpf in a main weapon and 100 wpf in throwing. If you think you can't melee with 120 wpf.... ehhh. Hell, if you so wished you could make a shielder with 21/15 and throwing lances by level 30, by sacrificing ironflesh.

(and yes ,of course, you throw from up close herp derp... that's the one-shot kill zone where you can't practically miss, of course no weapon is OP if you use it like a retard where it is not effective)

[UrLukur]

By the way, you're by no means defenseless when throwing lances run out - at that point you just switch to whatever melee weapon you're using. Durrr.

Yep, you can sport 6 wm as 2h/pole and 5 wm as 1h+S If you feel defenceless in melee, finding new game is the way to go seawied.

[Cup1d]

Wrong. The stats are the same as in native

And what can you say about athletics?

[Heroin]

Wrong. The stats are the same as in native (14% PD, 10% PT, 8% damage). Currently, there is no way to change what skills do, which is why with shields they went along the route of decreasing the base coverage instead of eg. lowering the % gain which shield skill gives to coverage (which led to insane epic forcefields where your back gets protected by a huscarl).

I am not sure about this, but I believe you may be misinformed. Last generation, I had a 10 PT archer, and it certainly didn't FEEL like I was doing 90 cut damage per shot with a longbow, which is what the longbow would do with that formula. I tested it on the duel server against several different types of armor with clanmates.

[bruce]

And what can you say about athletics?

You can cap it, since that is done on the database, but you can't change what skills do. Well, soon we might be able to, Cmpx is working on a tool which enables it.