Pikes & longspear need to be adjusted...

[Tears of Destiny]

With the first part you're wrong, with the second you're right. But still I sometimes get headshotted over a distance ingame where you wouldn't hit anything with a pistol for sure in RL 

That would be luck then, those arrow headshots are hardly "on demand" otherwise half of the enemy team would be dead 40 seconds out of spawn from range.

As for the firearm "pistol" comment: A Glock has an effective range of about 50 meters, and heavens knows you can "lob" luck shots farther then that, just like you can "drop" shots with an AK-47 at a kilometer and a half or more if you know what you are doing, despite it being farther then the "effective range." Either that, or the base security squadron is hacking real life. Now compare with modern longbows that have an effective range of 180 meters, and even "era appropriate" longbows had more then half that effective range (Actually era appropriate bows have ranges near-dead on with the 180 meter/200 yard figure I gave.)

TL:DR Version: Modern pistol bullets go really damn far if you don't care about accuracy, c-RPG arrow headshots from half way or across the map are largely luck, and most bows, ancient or modern, have effective ranges far above that of pistols.

[CrazyCracka420]

Long pointy sticks have always been effective in warfare (if used properly).  Pikes and long spears are fine the way they are.  The only problem I have is when I'm 2 feet away there's no way that a pike/long spear should be able to pull their attack back and still hit me.  You shouldnt' have to be the full distance of the weapon away, but you should have to be at least half the distance of the total length in order to do anything other than glance.

[Turboflex]

I'm glad to see pike formations making a comeback on NA battle. NH is back, KUTT doing it, even Chaos to an extent. It's really neat when 2 sides' formations line up and have some back and forth for a while before one side gives.

Sometimes it can be challenging when one side gets all of a certain class, pikes, maulers, cavalry or archers, it's tough to adapt to that kind of gimmick imbalance on a public server. But such is the capriciousness of the team scramble.

[San]

@ the OP

You were fighting a pretty dedicated pike clan, what do you expect?

A lot of the mechanics for those weapons are pretty dumb (what gets me is stabbing through teammates since I try to position myself to avoid that), but there's little reason to remove them, or any viable alternative at the moment which would satisfy people.

Also, that's the role of support weapons. They're very powerful in this game, and help augment the force's melee power. Precisely why I respec'd my character at lvl 33 to hoplite/1h.


I disagree with the pike being hard to use or anything, if shield+spear is any indication of how pike users fight. It just sucks that its blocks are slow.

[CrazyCracka420]

I think pikes would be balanced a little more if you could stab with a spear while still having your shield cover a good portion of your body.  As it stands right now a group of hoplites + infantry generally get destroyed by a group of equally skilled pikers + infantry.  You just get outreached and hoplites are no match for pikes, as soon as you release block you get stuck.

[engurrand]

OP is complaining about weapons being used how they should?

I was in this battle too, i was very impressed by the massive pike / long spear use. I thought it very effective.

Something i noticed right off the bat, it was very vulnerable to archer fire and throwing weapons. We had roughly 7-10 archers in the group, and they were all over the place. If they would have stood together and concentrated their fire they would have been devastating to the pikemen.

[Blackzilla]

Can you block down?

[Darkkarma]

OP is complaining about weapons being used how they should?

I was in this battle too, i was very impressed by the massive pike / long spear use. I thought it very effective.

Something i noticed right off the bat, it was very vulnerable to archer fire and throwing weapons. We had roughly 7-10 archers in the group, and they were all over the place. If they would have stood together and concentrated their fire they would have been devastating to the pikemen.

Pretty much this. Any archer worth their salt should be having a head shot buffet with pikemen around. At least from my experiences, the animations of the body in general are very stationary for the pike and there is very little range of motion as opposed to someone with a 2 hander side swinging, or a thrower rearing back and throwing. They are also generally linear in movement. A strong ranged presence is enough to offset pikes in my opinion.

[Herra Hakkarainen]

Remove everything except 1h swords. Shields, 2h, pike, spear, throwing, archery, horse, they all have to go. Maybe then people stop complaining.

[Malaclypse]

Remove everything except 1h swords. Shields, 2h, pike, spear, throwing, archery, horse, they all have to go. Maybe then people stop complaining.

Personally I wish the mod was forever like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjGVztif9Kk

[duurrr]

Remove everything except 1h swords. Shields, 2h, pike, spear, throwing, archery, horse, they all have to go. Maybe then people stop complaining.

this would actually be very fun

[dodnet]

Remove everything except 1h swords. Shields, 2h, pike, spear, throwing, archery, horse, they all have to go. Maybe then people stop complaining.

Noooo... 1h is so OP! 

[Konrax]

Aside from the borked physics,

the only problem is these long weapons still having the ability to jump away to kite. If they had to run normally they would not be able to get away most of the time.

I would like to see the ability to attack with the pike/awlpike type weapons removed while in the air. Maybe also not allow them to jump for a short period after attacking even.

[Crazyi]

You all use pike so generically it hurts me. The pike has varied WILDLY through the years and from nation to nation. No where in your offense or defense on this subject should you be using realism, unit tactics, and historical battles as proof. However close to real this game is, it is still extremely far from. Allow me to demonstrate
A fully grown man is ALWAYS strong enough to wear leather(but yet it has a str requirement)
A horse that runs full speed into ANYTHING will die, yet they take 0 damage running into solid walls. Hell they can run into a spear and live.
There is no crossbow in this game that would be operatable from a mounted postion. Simply not possible without a crank or lever.
You can swing a pole arm through a door, spin quickly, and hit some one through a wall.
If a longbow or crossbow were to shoot you, you might not die but you sure as hell won't get up.

I could go on forever but dont use realism as the basis for why a weapon should or should not be tweaked. This is a game, the mechanics are NOT real, and it needs to be balanced based on what is happening IN GAME.

1v1 a pike is pretty crappy. However, I dont know anyone that will engage 1v1 with a pike. Most of them have high enough athletics they will run until they find a teamate, and can take massive advantage of run/jump lolspin. They are used in swarms, where you cant just sit there and down block or your head will be cut off by the guy next to him. They have such a massive range, if they are anything but solo you dont have much of a chance to engage them. They can be swung around and through walls, as well as around and through your/their own teamates. It can take such a huge advantage of the faulty mechanics in this game, I really feel it needs to be nerfed.  There is no other weapon other than the long spear that can perform such feats. I personally feel this weapon encourages poor and dishonorable play and needs to be heavily re-evaluated.

*50m is max effective range for pistols. Most ranges dont even have 50m pistol targets, but you could go to the rifle range. Sure you can shoot and with blind luck hit something farther. An AK going 1500m accurately?? The bullet tumbles and fans as it flies, so good luck with that. it is possible but still HIGHLY unlikely.

[Smoothrich]

If a longbow or crossbow were to shoot you, you might not die but you sure as hell won't get up.

Now this is something I really doubt.  Have you ever bothered reading some medal of honor citations?  Dudes take liek 30 bullets, have limbs blown away, and maintain the presence of mind to slaughter dozens of chocolate chip cookies single handedly while coordinating troop movements and saving their men.  An arrow or xbow bolt causes significantly less trauma and damage then bullets do.  Nerf ranged.