Pikes & longspear need to be adjusted...

[Gurnisson]

Pikes are great if you team protects you. If your allies are hopeless you're useless. Seems about right to me.

[Zanze]

But what does any of that have to do with the realism of a pike. Once again people couldnt lawlstab in real life, move quickly with a pike in real life, or jump around in real life, or even block attacks.

At any rate for what reasons, real reasons, should pikers should be able to do any of the things i listed in teh first paragraph.

Wrong Forum. Realism forum is elsewhere. Backup your argument with balancing issues, not realism ones.

[Lemmy_Winks]

Zarren pikes wouldnt be useless if you got rid of lawl stabbing, they would still be good agaisnt cavalry, that is what they are for. Lawlstabbing is harder to block than someone with a longspear just trying to stab you, which is why everyone uses pikes.

[Tanken]

Please, for the love of god, do not say they are good for anti-cav. Yes, historically, they were. In cRPG, without help, my Pike most times cannot take down a horse. I can do little more than rear them, then by the time they are turning to go the other way, I stab them in the butt if I'm lucky.

Whereas 2hander weapons with the recent fix can just hack-slash 2 times at most horse's legs and BOOM. The horse is down. SO PLEASE, don't say the Pike is an anti-cavalry weapon. If you remove the spin stab from Pikes, fix turns on all weapons so 2handers can't 180 stab, Mauls can't hit you after their animation has been finished for half a second, shields can't block arrows that are nowhere near their shield, and lightly armed guys survive a spear seemingly sink through their torso.

This game, obviously does not strive for complete realism. The sooner you get that out of your head Lemmy, the easier the game will be to play. Also, in regards to our formations in Hanun--It worked, obviously. You guys weren't able to stay organized, your shield walls buckled, your archers couldn't find lanes, and your infantry was out-maneuvered pretty much every time. So, despite us not forming Shield Walls to march to your 6 man shield-wall and proceed to fight this like a Civil War battle, we still won.

[Zerran]

Zarren pikes wouldnt be useless if you got rid of lawl stabbing, they would still be good agaisnt cavalry, that is what they are for. Lawlstabbing is harder to block than someone with a longspear just trying to stab you, which is why everyone uses pikes.

True, pikes wouldn't be useless, if we don't compare it to other weapons. Compare it to the longspear, however, and without lawlstab the pike is, in fact, useless. The is due to the fact that were that to be removed pikes would lose ALL 1v1 capability, while longspears retain much of theirs.

Essentially what I'm getting at is removal of the lawlstab is a HUUUGE nerf to the pike, while only a moderate nerf to the longspear.

And, even with balance aside, the pike would be really damn boring without being able to jump and attack. 

Please, for the love of god, do not say they are good for anti-cav. Yes, historically, they were. In cRPG, without help, my Pike most times cannot take down a horse. I can do little more than rear them, then by the time they are turning to go the other way, I stab them in the butt if I'm lucky.

This is, unfortunately, also very true. If I stop cav on a full charge right on me, then I can sometimes kill them if I do a lot of spin stabbing and spam as much as possible, but quite often they just ride away. The longspear and bamboo spear are dramatically better cav stoppers, but even then, archers are really the best anti cav in the game.

[Richter]

Honestly, I have noticed a disparity between melee groups that have a lot of pikes in them and those who don't.
But then again, that's reasonable. Is it balanced that our pike & melee formation can almost always break a plain shieldwall? Maybe.

But what do you think would happen when a bunch of guys locking their shields together get set upon by a forest of sharp sticks going for their legs and faces? Their Arms and flanks?
It's even worse when both sides are just pikemen, because unlike in Warband, you can't downblock to defend yourself completely, nor can you just hold a shield up and deflect everything.

Why were long, pointed stabbing weapons used from pre-history, to modern times, existing still in bayonet form?
Because nobody wants to run at a spike, much less a wall of spikes, especially when they can move and chase you.

Do you get the idea? It's what we call "bad war."
What I don't like about my weapon of choice is that I can jump in mid-air and stab with it at the same time. I don't like that I can abuse its length to go through closed doors, or around them at an impossible angle, as if the haft did not exist.

But if you're going to complain about lolstab, then pikes aren't solely to blame. You can do the same things with two-handers and one-handers.
Pikes are just intrinsically more prone to be used like this, because they're long, and slow.

[Aleta]

The reason why there were so few pikes in medieval times was that there were a ton of halberds and bills and such instead. The halberds could outrange the 2handers and shielders and basically anyone, but still they had better manouverability that the super long pike and strikes from above were more powerful with a halberd.

However, in cRPG the polearm animations are so derped that halberds don't outrange 2handers when thrusting. Therefore people use longer weapons like the pike.

About the balance of the pike, I'd say it's completely fine. Teamwork should be effective, and pikers suck on their own.

[Zerran]

I'm on my 3rd or fourth gen pure pikeman, played longspear the gen before that, and played 2 or 3 gens of 2d weapons before that. Only last gen did I actually get to the point where I could even really begin to effectively 1v1 with my pike. It's not in any way a weapon that you can just pick up and start dueling with, regardless of how much experience you have with other weapons.

For some reason people love to grab my pike after I die in battle. It's actually pretty entertaining to watch them, because you get to see some players that were doing great with a different weapon suddenly reduced to complete nubs with no idea what they're doing. 

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

When the pike walls and box formations were invented warfare in Europe was turned on its head.

An army of xbows, swiss halabers and pikes should cluster fuck pretty much everything. The pikes are a pain in the butt, but they are pretty much on (as in right/good).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_square

Note the statement "Well trained and well drilled" I might hate all members of chaos and KUTT with a burning rage that few could ever must or understand... oh wait I don't... but you really have to hand it to their pikemen, a lot of them work really well together and are a huge pain in the arse.

[dodnet]

Correct ....Pikes are the most unrealistic and bugged fantasy weapons in crpg

Yeah, and archery is absolutely realistic in this game where you headshot one through half the map with a higher accuracy then most modern pistols. If you want realism you also need battles with thousands of people not only 120 at max.

[John]

If it was my decision, I'd "adjust" the pike all the way out of the game.

[dodnet]

If it was my decision, I'd "adjust" the pike all the way out of the game.

Good your NOT in command here 

[Gurnisson]

But Paul is stalking the thread. Maybe he will.

[Tears of Destiny]

Yeah, and archery is absolutely realistic in this game where you headshot one through half the map with a higher accuracy then most modern pistols.

You've clearly never gone shooting, nor have you played much with bows recently in this game.

[dodnet]

You've clearly never gone shooting, nor have you played much with bows recently in this game.

With the first part you're wrong, with the second you're right. But still I sometimes get headshotted over a distance ingame where you wouldn't hit anything with a pistol for sure in RL