Author Topic: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow  (Read 9230 times)

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Offline bruce

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2011, 05:59:55 pm »
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Throwing was and is a better sidearm. Period. The high-end crossbows take a while to reload, aim and use, meaning you can't really follow infantry around as well as you could if you had a bow or throwing spammables, and cost a lot on top - for the price of a sniper you could be carrying two packs of jarids or something.

The reason to use a crossbow? Well, everyone else is shooting or throwing something, so you might as well join in the shooter yourself. Half the maps involve roof bundle of sticksry. What do you expect?

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Offline Seawied

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2011, 06:30:06 pm »
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I doubt that someone with Great Long Bardiche couldn't make more kills in such situation than someone with siege crossbow. Siege crossbow as a sidearm is technically one-shot weapon. If you shoot more times with it per round, you're not able to participate in infantry charge and coordinate with your fellow teammates.

The point is that with current upkeep and throwing as good as it is, there is little reason to have 20,000-worth xbow as a one-use weapon. 4 skill points is nothing, and with that you can have like 8 axes you can throw around, and they will aid your infantry build much more than one-shot xbow. These xbows made sense when there was no upkeep, when they deal more damage, and everyone was running in plate.

I would post something... but Tai Feng just steamrolled the proponents of the nerf.
So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective
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Offline WaltF4

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2011, 06:33:02 pm »
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Melee weapons without PS and proficiency are about as useful as xbow without proficiency. You can still kill with them.
That's a bullshit and you know it.
I have already done what Tai Feng is claiming. It does work like that.

I leveled up a test character just to study the reticule size and the rate of fire for the different crossbows. Since I wanted to get as much proficiency as quickly as possible, I converted every skill point that could not be put into weapon master into attribute points. I also did not spend the WPF until I reached level 21 so that the tests would be controlled for character agility. So, I fought siege battles for 21 levels with absolutely no useful skills and was getting as many kills with 0 PS and 0 proficiency polearms as I did with 0 proficiency crossbows. 

It was miserable. They are both awful, but arguing about them is pretty meaningless because it is trivial to get 50 proficiency in a weapon type.


buff dedicated xbowers, nerf random xbowers
This does not seem possible until they nerf hybrid builds in general. Maybe, at some point in the future, you will not be able to pick up a secondary weapon type by giving up a couple proficiency from your main weapon type. For example, my high agility pikeman build could get 50 crossbow proficiency by dropping from 180 polearm proficiency to 177 polearm proficiency. 0 to 50 crossbow proficiency reduces the area of a crossbow reticule by about 50%. 180 to 177 polearm proficiency increases your the time per attack by less than 3 milliseconds. Balanced builds only drop 5 to 10 proficiency from their main weapon type for 50 crossbow proficiency. High strength builds would probably be better off throwing stuff with 0 throwing proficiency.


Well, everyone else is shooting or throwing something, so you might as well join in the shooter yourself. Half the maps involve roof bundle of sticksry. What do you expect?
Exactly. The players will do what works. You can not fault them for it.

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2011, 06:44:08 pm »
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I am dedicated xbower, I could live with 2-4k increase in cost. If it would make me lose money, I'd just switch to cheaper melee weapon.

I'm a dedicated xbower and I would hate it. I have the short hafted blade as melee weapon and leather as armor. Not too much, but I still make next to nothing because that monster breaks for 873 denars every other round.
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Gorath

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2011, 07:14:20 pm »
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everyone can snipe with you
Bullshit.  Unless they're investing a significant amount into x-bow WPF then they're not sniping anyone.  I have 130 x-bow wpf and I know the reticule and accuracy differences well, and they are drastic.  Getting shot when you're standing still at medium range is not getting sniped.
everyone 1shot with you
Again, bullshit.  Unless you're running around naked as an agi build.  I run with heavy x-bow the majority of the time, but I bust out the sniper x-bow for siege defenses.  Again, with hefty investment into x-bow wpf @ 130.  Unless you get shot in the head, or you're doing the aforementioned nude agi shit, you're not getting 1-shot by any of the x-bows.  It will not happen.
And I should be nice or polite to anyone.... why exactly?

Offline Punisher

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2011, 07:24:05 pm »
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With 18 str, 0 IF and 40 body armor I get 1shoted by sniper xbow.

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2011, 07:37:11 pm »
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I have exceptional sniper xbow, 160 wpf and steel bolts and I'm by no means one-shooting everyone. People are even surviving headshots!
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Nemeth

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2011, 07:57:42 pm »
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I have exceptional sniper xbow, 160 wpf and steel bolts and I'm by no means one-shooting everyone. People are even surviving headshots!

Now this is BS. I have MW sniper xbow, so I know all the hierloom levels of sniper xbows, and every single one of them is headshot=kill, no matter what helmet they are using. I've killed tincans with it no problem. Also, you can one shot people, but usually only point blank and only light armored guys.
As for the 0 ps 1 wpf, I guess, I never really tested it with enough str, but I know with 0-3 PS I was whiffing a LOT. Didn't know str has that big of an influence.

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2011, 08:10:45 pm »
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Now this is BS. I have MW sniper xbow, so I know all the hierloom levels of sniper xbows, and every single one of them is headshot=kill, no matter what helmet they are using.

Sorry, but you're wrong. I've seen it enough times already :)
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Gorath

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2011, 08:45:32 pm »
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Sorry, but you're wrong. I've seen it enough times already :)

No, you're wrong.  This has been tested on the duel server thoroughly.  With a headshot the regular xbow, heavy xbow and sniper xbow will all 1-shot a 27 str, 9 IF player wearing a 50 armor helmet.  Masterworks are guaranteed.

1-shot body hits don't happen unless you're low str and nekkid.
And I should be nice or polite to anyone.... why exactly?

Offline Punisher

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2011, 08:52:28 pm »
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1-shot body hits don't happen unless you're low str and nekkid.

With 18 str, 0 IF and 40 body armor I get 1shoted by sniper xbow at close-medium range.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 08:54:22 pm by Punisher »

Offline RamsesXXIIX

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2011, 09:10:04 pm »
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With 18 str, 0 IF and 40 body armor I get 1shoted by sniper xbow at close-medium range.

Were you running towards the xbower?

Offline Punisher

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2011, 09:13:55 pm »
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Yes, I was trying to kill them :) . Didn't think at this, I have 7 Ath so speed bonus might increase the damage just enough for a 1shot kill to the body.

Offline Paul

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2011, 09:40:59 pm »
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Love how everyone is unaware of the fact that damage and armor values are randomised to a certain degree when a hit is calculated. A single test is pretty worthless. Repeat it at least 10 times from the same distance.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 09:42:13 pm by Paul »

Offline UrLukur

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Re: Xbow, xbow, fashion xbow
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2011, 10:01:38 pm »
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Love how everyone is unaware of the fact that damage and armor values are randomised to a certain degree when a hit is calculated. A single test is pretty worthless. Repeat it at least 10 times from the same distance.

Wasn't it psaudo-random number between 50% and 100% of armor value ?
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