Version 0.270

[Scrambles720]

Solutions for dealing with archers.

1. Pay attention.
2. Dont jump! there will be a shot in your face when you land.
3. Dodge. Wait until they shoot and move out of the way.
4. Dont stand still in the open.
5. Get a shield. Giant bubble of protection for your whole body!(feet included)
6. Dont be predictable.
7. Dont stand in a large blob so they dont even have to aim.(If you insist, grab a shield.)
8. See 1 and 3.
9. Dodge.
10. Keep the opponents in between you and the archers to block the shot.
11. There will be lucky shots. Deal with it.
12. Shoot them back.

Not a solution for dealing with archers.

1. Whine for a nerf.
2. Cry because you dont pay attention.
3. TK them next round because they shot you. ;)
4. Running after the fast archer while you have no shield.(Go find cover.)
5. Standing still.(I can make an across the map shot on you if you are standing still.)
6. Walking in a straight line at the archers.
7. If you are an archer DO NOT stand still and shoot repeatedly.
8. Dodge into the arrow.
9. Blob up!(Unless its a shield wall.)
10. See 1 and 3.

For everyone out there crying I hope this helps you. I have played both an archer and a melee(with and without a shield). Every time I die to an archer I notice that I did something on that list wrong. If not, there are always lucky shots. The most recent strat battle I was in was Hosp Vs. Chaos and i only died 2 times to an arrow in those 90 minutes of shooting their archers and large blobs. As a melee you will die more to archers, but you can still prevent a lot of those stupid mistakes.

[Dezilagel]

Archers in CRPG dont have as much pin point accuracy as you imagine, there's a lot of skill out there. Between crossbows, longbows and horsearchers, you have some of the most devastating weapons and fighting styles in history, yet the melee based characters dominate the game and the scoreboard as always, so quit complaining. Real life professional archers are a lot more efficient than the crap we have in crpg, their skill is not luck based. And if you and all the meleers think that people without shields didn't die alot from ranged back in medieval times, you've a huge misconception of how things worked back then and this is simply not the game for you. Now, nobody likes getting shot, but thats no reason to make a class weaker than it already is.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/board,69.0.html

Shoo.

We don't need no fucking twatchers

We don't need no gay x-bow

No lame-ass ranged on our server

Come on fucking nerf those bows!

HEY! Devs! Nerf those fucking bows!

All in all it's just another prick on the wall...

[Remy]

I feel so sad, I want all "serious" classes to be viable and skill based. 

I like my 1H(no shield) melee alt just as much as my HA main. I loved playing as a Ninja(2H) when I started cRPG.

I don't hate or dislike any class; Archer, Xbowman, Lancer, 1H cav, HA(and horse throwers), 1H/shielders, 2H, polearm; no armor, light armor, medium armor or heavy armor...I don't care how someone kills me, if I am backstabbed, shot ambushed or killed in an "honorable" duel. If my enemy manages to get the better of me then good for them, if not then good for me.

Regardless of what class I play or have played I usually die to either my own mistakes or a superior enemy(skill, numbers, etc). I cannot remember when I felt that my loss was only or largely due to "imbalance" even in the worst situation, I probably did something wrong earlier that put me in said situation.

[Adamar]

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/board,69.0.html

Shoo.
[/i]

My point was that the devs already disregarded realism for balance, to make melee more atractive. Asking for further nerfing of ranged classes is lame.

[Kafein]

My point was that the devs already disregarded realism for balance, to make melee more atractive. Asking for further nerfing of ranged classes is lame.

Why ?

What is better to balance a game ? Fun, or realism ? Compared to Native, melee needs to be significantly buffed compared to range to get a sane amount of people to play it. A few facts :

- The effectiveness of melee combat decreases over time, as players learn to defend themselves better rather than improving their attack.
- The effectiveness of ranged combat increases over time, as players learn to aim and track better, rather than dodging.
- Native was designed with noobish skill levels in mind.
- A high proportion of ranged players on a server pushes others to switch to ranged as well. This is not the case with infantry or cavalry.

The game is two years old now, and pretty much all the players can block a handful of swings before failing, hence why melee combat needs to be helped if we want to avoid cRPG to become another CS:medieval mod.

[Adamar]

- The effectiveness of melee combat decreases over time, as players learn to defend themselves better rather than improving their attack.
- The effectiveness of ranged combat increases over time, as players learn to aim and track better, rather than dodging.

Exept that people's skill doesn't keep improving to infinity. There's a limit to how good you can be with a certain class and a lot of players are already there. Ranged is simply nerfed for convenience, and we undertand why. But then we still have to put up with people complaining, like Christo yesterday, a poplearm guy, he was 12-2 and still complaining about ranged. It's not even so much about the efficiency of range vs ballance, people simply dont like to get shot, then they come here and post some 'facts' hoping to change the game in their favour like in the previous version, just so we end up with a broken gameplay where 1 big blob of inf simply tries to overwelm the other(sounds familiar?).

[Kafein]

Exept that people's skill doesn't keep improving to infinity. There's a limit to how good you can be with a certain class and a lot of players are already there. Ranged is simply nerfed for convenience, and we undertand why. But then we still have to put up with people complaining, like Christo yesterday, a poplearm guy, he was 12-2 and still complaining about ranged. It's not even so much about the efficiency of range vs ballance, people simply dont like to get shot, then they come here and post some 'facts' hoping to change the game in their favour like in the previous version, just so we end up with a broken gameplay where 1 big blob of inf simply tries to overwelm the other(sounds familiar?).

The fact that skill doesn't keep improving to infinity doesn't make my point invalid. The main concern is that the average player will defend himself in melee during a very long time, even agains the best. A very long time when compared with the time taken by range to kill any player (terrible, average or good, it makes only a small difference), that is. Try again.

[Adamar]

The fact that skill doesn't keep improving to infinity doesn't make my point invalid. The main concern is that the average player will defend himself in melee during a very long time, even agains the best. A very long time when compared with the time taken by range to kill any player (terrible, average or good, it makes only a small difference), that is. Try again.

No, infs do kill way faster than ranged. And in hindsight a person could block forever, but what you see in the servers, in inf vs ranged melee, is the ranged guy getting deathspammed or blocking until he gets 1 hit killed or snuck up from behind which usualy kills them, as it should be. The infs are obviously better at melee, and if you take away the ability for ranged to actually kill in range we go back to the 2.60 bullshit, which is apparently what you want.

[Dezilagel]

The only thing that prevents archers from being OP is that most of them suck at melee.

Imagine having 10-15 archers on the opposing team that could actually block and would just walk backwards... "shrugs"

Archers actually has a massive advantage in melee for that reason, they can just walk backward and still be effective since they want to gtfo out of the melee, severely hurting your ability to get past their blocks since you can't play the range-game game with them, kick them etc.

[Beauchamp]

Both Dezilagel and especially Kafein need to try out archer char first themselves before coming up with their weird theories...

In other words: have you ever tried to play as an archer for at least 1 day?

[Scrambles720]

The only thing that prevents archers from being OP is that most of them suck at melee.

Imagine having 10-15 archers on the opposing team that could actually block and would just walk backwards... "shrugs"

Archers actually has a massive advantage in melee for that reason, they can just walk backward and still be effective since they want to gtfo out of the melee, severely hurting your ability to get past their blocks since you can't play the range-game game with them, kick them etc.

Archers actually has a massive advantage in melee

Archers actually has a massive advantage in melee

Seems to make sense.......

[Christo]

But then we still have to put up with people complaining, like Christo yesterday, a poplearm guy, he was 12-2 and still complaining about ranged.

Yes, because of let's say 35 people, plenty of them got a crossbow sidearm, was a high-area camping runcher, or threw something.

The problem is how many people play it. Still I got 2 shot killed by Blackbow and his joke mini lolbow, that's just ridiculous, but whatever.
 You ranged guys aren't the ones who get shot all the damn time, so why would you even care.

Scores mean next to nothing, fyi. It's just an e-peen boost for most. You can kill many fray who would die fast anyway, but still get shot to pieces by high-area camping xbow sidearmers or archer runners.
And of course, lose the match. A good k/d won't win it for you. 

[Adamar]

You ranged guys aren't the ones who get shot all the damn time, so why would you even care.

Oh yes we do, its better to hit a standing target, than risk teamwouding by shooting to the melee, and archers also have crapier armor. Why I said getting shot is annoying.

[Dezilagel]

I did an archer STF, of course, otherwise I wouldn't have said anything.

21-18, all wpf into archery, 4 ps hornbow and on stack of arrows + Spear or two stacks of arrows and a staff.

As soon as someone walked up, just bonk them across the map. Noone expected it. + You could constantly backpeddle constantly and as such, melee was very easy.

[Xant]

Archers actually has a massive advantage in melee for that reason, they can just walk backward and still be effective since they want to gtfo out of the melee, severely hurting your ability to get past their blocks since you can't play the range-game game with them, kick them etc.

I wouldn't say "massive advantage" but it makes up for their gimped melee stats, yeah (in a 1v1). You HAVE to keep chasing them or they'll whip out their bow. Which makes you easier to kick, very predictable and limits most of your offensive capabilities (like you said).