Version 0.270

[Joker86]

A horse archer shooting and avoiding the enemy is not delaying. If only melee are left, their problem.

Doesn't sound like a fun game for everyone, huh? 

[cmp]

Doesn't sound like a fun game for everyone, huh? 

The same thing could be said (by melee players) about ranged, but you'd be forgetting that you're not the only one playing the game.

[Kafein]

The same thing could be said (by melee players) about ranged, but you'd be forgetting that you're not the only one playing the game.

Saying it's completely fair to shoot at melee all the arrows you have while slowly getting away on your horse, and being impossible to catch sounds like forgetting you're not alone playing the game. It's ok against bots though. But melee aren't bots afaik.

[cmp]

Nope, it's just you being melee supremacists. We don't mind, but we also don't care much.

[Paul]

Wait for MotF flag.

[Joker86]

The problem is that horse archery was "invented" to gain the best possible advantage over the enemy, and although more or less every weapon in history was created with this idea in mind, horse archery brought it almost to perfection. (Within the corresponding state of science at that period)

Which means if you have the biggest advantage possible over your enemy, you are the most unfair opponent for him. This sounds okay in real life, but it is definitely a fail concept concerning a game that is supposed to be fun for everyone. Saying you don't care or mind shows a shocking amount of indifference.

Fact is, that horse archers only die if they risk too much or they decide to die. Which has no impact on their ability to attack any enemy they can see.

But I wouldn't nerf the class further. In my eyes the battle mode with the goal of killing the enemy team (which means killing is the goal) is the problem. Remove battle mode and replace it with something similar, like conquering flags on the map, and I will be fine with horse archers, as they will be the most useless element of a team concerning the game mode goal. Just what their almost-immortality (while being able to attack anyone constantly) should cost them.

[Overdriven]

 

Most of the time there's one or two HA.

It was quite unsual to have me, Mtemtko, Jackie, Tuonela, gazi and another HA I don't remember on at the same time today 

[Joker86]

Most of the time there's one or two HA.

It was quite unsual to have me, Mtemtko, Jackie, Tuonela, gazi and another HA I don't remember on at the same time today 

Having only a few HAs and thus having only few situations where we have rock-paper-scissors-SHOTGUN-system in the game doesn't make it any better for you if you are cought in one of these situations facing a shotgun with your rock/paper/scissors...


Let's stop on researching cures for weird illnesses with names of real persons, as there are always only a few victims world wide... 

[karasu]

Holy crapola, are players actually ragin' about HA? Are you mad?

The last time I saw an HA actually being a pain in the ass was before the accuracy nerf months ago, and it was only Tuonela (bloody hell he's still a pain..).

If you're infantry, get a shield or use the environment while waiting for a mistake or until he runs out of ammo. It's not that hard.

[Overdriven]

Having only a few HAs and thus having only few situations where we have rock-paper-scissors-SHOTGUN-system in the game doesn't make it any better for you if you are cought in one of these situations facing a shotgun with your rock/paper/scissors...


Let's stop on researching cures for weird illnesses with names of real persons, as there are always only a few victims world wide... 

HAs on their own at the end of a level aren't particularly lethal. Annoying yes. But lethal, not so much. All an inf has to do is keep dodging and the HA will run out of arrows pretty fast. Either that or take some decent armour. My barbed arrows register 0 damage except with a decent speed bonus (another cav coming at me) against transitional armour for example. With bodkins an HA bleeds money horrendously fast, particularly as most ride arabians, coursers or destriers.

Just because your build is no good against it. Or your style of play is no good against it, doesn't mean anything about an HA should be changed or they should change their style of play. As there are other builds and players that have no trouble against them.

An inf will win if the HA makes a mistake. But that's equally true of inf vs inf.

[Lichen]

Fact is, that horse archers only die if they risk too much or they decide to die.

Horse archers often die when they run out of arrows or get killed by ground archers. A good ground archer is something horse archers quickly understand to keep away from. Who's fault is it if all the ground archers get killed or go for melee first? Not the horse archers fault.

Remove battle mode and replace it with something similar, like conquering flags on the map, and I will be fine with horse archers, as they will be the most useless element of a team concerning the game mode goal. Just what their almost-immortality (while being able to attack anyone constantly) should cost them.

Oh, you want horse archers to be useless. How unbiased of you.

[Joker86]

So my options to not being killed without chance to prevent it are...

... hiding and taking myself out of the game this way, waiting for the MotF to appear of the HA's arrows to disappear, unless he starts picking them up all over the map
... hoping for a mistake (lolwut? So if he does everything right I am screwed?)
... dodging, which works in about 0-50% of all cases/shots?
... wasting skill points, item slots and weight on items that I am required to use, never mind which class I am, to deal with a certain class (deal = not being a sure frag for him) (on another note: how many items do HA's require to deal with other classes?)


Again: I am not crying for a nerf of HA's. Definitely not. I am just stating things from my infantry point of view. Chances of me catching archers are low. Chances of me catching a HA are 0 as sure as 2+2=4 is. It is absolute metaphysic certainity. Chances of a horse archer killing me: very good, in any situation. Amount of suck in this relation: enormous.

Removing battle mode and replacing it by something reasonable would change a lot.

And how would you balance a class that...
... is immune to a big part, I would say even the majority of all enemies on the server
... can attack anyone they see, which means they have no classes that they can't attack in in return to above
?

[Overdriven]

So my options to not being killed without chance to prevent it are...

... hiding and taking myself out of the game this way, waiting for the MotF to appear of the HA's arrows to disappear, unless he starts picking them up all over the map
... hoping for a mistake (lolwut? So if he does everything right I am screwed?)
... dodging, which works in about 0-50% of all cases/shots?
... wasting skill points, item slots and weight on items that I am required to use, never mind which class I am, to deal with a certain class (deal = not being a sure frag for him) (on another note: how many items do HA's require to deal with other classes?)


Again: I am not crying for a nerf of HA's. Definitely not. I am just stating things from my infantry point of view. Chances of me catching archers are low. Chances of me catching a HA are 0 as sure as 2+2=4 is. It is absolute metaphysic certainity. Chances of a horse archer killing me: very good, in any situation. Amount of suck in this relation: enormous.

Removing battle mode and replacing it by something reasonable would change a lot.

And how would you balance a class that...
... is immune to a big part, I would say even the majority of all enemies on the server
... can attack anyone they see, which means they have no classes that they can't attack in in return to above
?

- Arrows disappear quickly, just like weapons. By the end of a round an HA will be low and there will be very few arrows to find.
- If you were in a duel your only hope of winning is if the other person makes a mistake.
- More like 50-90%, if you dodge properly. HA vs decent dodging aware inf is actually pretty bloody hard. Most HA give up and move on. Problem is most inf aren't very good at it.
- If you don't want to make a build like that...then that's your problem.
- HA's require all their items, that's all slots + horse... 2h, or other inf can just carry one weapon around the battlefield to deal with most classes. If you want to be truly viable, take a little extra.

Plenty of inf have very little trouble with HA's. You just have to know what to do, or have a decent build. Just because yours doesn't work, is not the HA's fault.

You balance them by giving them not all that great accuracy and a damage nerf. Which is what they are now.

Shielders are also pretty much immune unless they are locked in melee or get bumped by other cav. Bump shooting is hard to pull off and easy for aware inf to counter.

[Joker86]

Plenty of inf have very little trouble with HA's. You just have to know what to do, or have a decent build. Just because yours doesn't work, is not the HA's fault.

Actually it's something different. In least cases I get killed by HA's. I just don't grudge them most of the advantages they have.

[Chris_the_Animal]

Another thing about the marketplace:

Before the new patch u could see the base price of the weapon or equip when u just go with the mouse over the requested price!
Now!! this feature is disabled
so everytime i want to sell sth not loomed at the marketplace i have to look at the normal equipment shop and look how expensive it is there! thats for people who dont have a good internet connection really annoying!
I hope this will be resolved

(maybe i am the only one with that problem but i dont think so)