Author Topic: Salem (free beta keys on mmorpg.com)  (Read 16512 times)

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Offline Banok

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Re: Salem (free beta keys on mmorpg.com)
« Reply #180 on: March 12, 2013, 05:28:27 am »
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grind does kind of ruin this game. its true that if you know what you are doing you can minimalize it substaintually but still, too grindy. didn't used to be so bad, but its been like this since august so my hope that they would reduce it is dwindling.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Salem (free beta keys on mmorpg.com)
« Reply #181 on: March 12, 2013, 07:40:12 am »
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grind does kind of ruin this game. its true that if you know what you are doing you can minimalize it substaintually but still, too grindy. didn't used to be so bad, but its been like this since august so my hope that they would reduce it is dwindling.

Yep, true. To be honest every full sandbox MMO that I've played so far had a substantial grind.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Salem (free beta keys on mmorpg.com)
« Reply #182 on: March 12, 2013, 05:01:58 pm »
+1
That is because actions you perform are too simple in most games. For example, both Warband and Path of Exile are games where you control trained fighter and gameplay of both games consists of combat and killing the enemies.

Problem is that in Warband actions needed to kill an enemy give you so much freedom compared to PoE. After 1000 killed enemies in PoE I'm bored beyond belief. In Warband I can endure 10 times that number and even then I'm not bored, just tired. Because of that I can play Warband whole day, while I can't play PoE longer than two hours in a row.

Same goes for sandbox game, if crafting is implemented in a way where you combine some items by placing them on some grid like in Minecraft, of course that will bore you quickly. Especially if you need to wait half minute in order to obtain resources (farming/mining part) like in most MMORPGs.

Offline Lennu

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Re: Salem (free beta keys on mmorpg.com)
« Reply #183 on: March 12, 2013, 05:07:16 pm »
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grind does kind of ruin this game. its true that if you know what you are doing you can minimalize it substaintually but still, too grindy. didn't used to be so bad, but its been like this since august so my hope that they would reduce it is dwindling.

Still better than the bucket grind on h&h :D
I think that a team of active players can archive quite a lot, and fast. I remember the Fallen settlement we had on h&h long ago. In a few weeks we grew extremely strong. Too bad only Vibe was actually good at that game + the raid that made everyone rage quit happened really fast. Some 300strenght guy mauled himself in through our palisade, and then everything got destroyed.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 05:10:19 pm by Lennu »

Offline Vibe

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Re: Salem (free beta keys on mmorpg.com)
« Reply #184 on: March 13, 2013, 10:08:58 am »
+1
That is because actions you perform are too simple in most games. For example, both Warband and Path of Exile are games where you control trained fighter and gameplay of both games consists of combat and killing the enemies.

Problem is that in Warband actions needed to kill an enemy give you so much freedom compared to PoE. After 1000 killed enemies in PoE I'm bored beyond belief. In Warband I can endure 10 times that number and even then I'm not bored, just tired. Because of that I can play Warband whole day, while I can't play PoE longer than two hours in a row.

Same goes for sandbox game, if crafting is implemented in a way where you combine some items by placing them on some grid like in Minecraft, of course that will bore you quickly. Especially if you need to wait half minute in order to obtain resources (farming/mining part) like in most MMORPGs.

That's just it, the core gameplay and game pace trumps all. I was in the same situation with PoE - to kill things you need to press 2 buttons and a mouse click, with no special mouse moves, extra aim or anything like that. It got too boring for me to continue after only 20 levels.

While in games like cRPG or Quake you don't press many more buttons, it's the core gameplay and their fast pace that make them fun. You have a lot more stuff to control and watch over, your attention/reflexes are at hard work and your mouse/aim skills are at a great test - this coupled with fast paced gameplay is what makes it fun. Popularity of Quake Live is a great example of this, because there is nothing to "grind towards to" there - people play it because the gameplay itself is fun. As for cRPG, I doubt so many people would grind so much if Warband didn't provide an interesting and engaging combat system.

Sadly, there are absolutely ZERO full sandbox games that have core gameplay/combat system that feels like it's worth staying for, thus they eventually all feel like grind.

Still better than the bucket grind on h&h :D
I think that a team of active players can archive quite a lot, and fast. I remember the Fallen settlement we had on h&h long ago. In a few weeks we grew extremely strong. Too bad only Vibe was actually good at that game + the raid that made everyone rage quit happened really fast. Some 300strenght guy mauled himself in through our palisade, and then everything got destroyed.

Two Russians actually lol. We were quite newbie at that point, no brick wall that would've saved our butts in this case (which is pretty easy to set up for a group of established players, tbh). You can read more about it here http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=19902 :)

But what I really wanted to say is that having now played both Salem and H&H extensively, I can without a shred of doubt say I enjoyed H&H more. Yes it was still grindy, but the character progression was more fun and less of a chore (the system after bucket grind ofc). Salem's is way way WAY too grindy - spamming countless of inspirationals. The curiosity system of H&H is IMO just worlds beyond - you can't/don't have to spam it and it's time limited.

I'm going back to H&H as soon as the lag is fixed. I can't stand Salems ugly ass 3D anymore - imo this was a bad design choice by devs/Paradox, because 3D doesn't automatically equal good. The 2D isometric of H&H was way more pleasing to the eyes.

Salem has a few good stuff that H&H could learn from (no waking up at X hour to refuel steel torture), but overall I'd say H&H is simply better.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 10:21:26 am by Vibe »

Offline Polobow

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Re: Salem (free beta keys on mmorpg.com)
« Reply #185 on: March 13, 2013, 02:07:09 pm »
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I thought the lag will never get fixed in H&H, they're only focusing on Salem now...

Offline Vibe

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Re: Salem (free beta keys on mmorpg.com)
« Reply #186 on: March 13, 2013, 03:36:55 pm »
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I thought the lag will never get fixed in H&H, they're only focusing on Salem now...

It might get fixed one day :/
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 07:41:00 am by Vibe »

Offline Banok

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Re: Salem (free beta keys on mmorpg.com)
« Reply #187 on: March 13, 2013, 06:04:35 pm »
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Ive also been thinking about haven vs salem, and missing some things from haven. But there are alot of terrible things in haven if you go back from salem, not just lag. timers for EVERY fucking action etc. I actually think salem's character progression is better designed, but badly balanced to be too grindy.

Also salem is still lacking tons of content haven has, all those proficiencies do nothing in salem, no taming, no other metals etc. and all the planned content not in witchcraft etc.
and salems combat is actually quite good, whereas haven's is soooo bad.

theres things I like and dislike about both. I think I enjoyed salem the most, I think I might be done with both now tho  :cry:

Offline Vibe

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Re: Salem (free beta keys on mmorpg.com)
« Reply #188 on: March 21, 2013, 10:30:40 am »
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Loftar actually took some time to devote to Haven&Hearth and put some stuff in that fixed the lag :)

I might jump into it again. Been quite a while since I last played it :)

Offline Polobow

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Re: Salem (free beta keys on mmorpg.com)
« Reply #189 on: March 21, 2013, 12:05:43 pm »
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Loftar actually took some time to devote to Haven&Hearth and put some stuff in that fixed the lag :)

I might jump into it again. Been quite a while since I last played it :)

Got a source of that? There's nothing in the announcements section of the H&H forum.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Salem (free beta keys on mmorpg.com)
« Reply #190 on: March 21, 2013, 12:09:20 pm »
+1

Offline Vibe

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Re: Salem (free beta keys on mmorpg.com)
« Reply #191 on: April 09, 2013, 02:36:24 pm »
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Tbh H&H has had about the same if not more people than Salem since the lag was fixed :3