Really melee-ers?

[Brutal]

yea but what happen when you engage combat with 3-4 cav lurking around ?
you get raped

[Angantyr]

Nerf polearms and everything is fine.

Ranged is fine (dunno about throwing), 2h infantry is, 1h infantry definetly is, 1h cav is, polearm cav is, 2h cav is. Polearm infantry remains as the only op class. There's not a single good reason why you should not choose a polearm over any other melee class. It can stop horses, it can stagger the opponent and stun his weapon (high weight), it has  incredible reach, the by far highest damage overall (31 pierce stab on poleaxe eg) and same/higher speed as 2h (glaive for instance is as fast as danish gs allthough it has 2 less speedpoints according to the site).

Also the shield of 1h is still very usefull, BUT it slows you down alot and ranged is not that much of a threat anymore ('cause most archers are too bad to aim properly)

qft

[Overdriven]

yea but what happen when you engage combat with 3-4 cav lurking around ?
you get raped

Only if you fuck up. If you stop even one of them in their tracks, you then use the horse as cover from the rest and they will usually leave you alone because they know you are dangerous and there are easier pickings.

Besides, there shouldn't be a situation where you are so away from teammates ect that 3-4 cav would have a bearing on you.

[Dezilagel]

Nerf polearms and everything is fine.

Ranged is fine (dunno about throwing), 2h infantry is, 1h infantry definetly is, 1h cav is, polearm cav is, 2h cav is. Polearm infantry remains as the only op class. There's not a single good reason why you should not choose a polearm over any other melee class. It can stop horses, it can stagger the opponent and stun his weapon (high weight), it has  incredible reach, the by far highest damage overall (31 pierce stab on poleaxe eg) and same/higher speed as 2h (glaive for instance is as fast as danish gs allthough it has 2 less speedpoints according to the site).

Also the shield of 1h is still very usefull, BUT it slows you down alot and ranged is not that much of a threat anymore ('cause most archers are too bad to aim properly)

And this is a load of bull.

A greatsword outreaches my poleaxe on 3/4 swings, and has overall higher reach.

The shitty bonus length on the animations in compensated by longer weapon length... Which is a disadvantage since high length + high weight on your weapon makes you run much slower.

And last time I checked, poles and 2h have roughtly equal damage apart from the stab. But then the polestab is outclassed by far by the 2h. And having a high-damage 2h stab would make playing pikeman as a 2h even more profitable.

And you constantly proclaim that poles have higher speed than 2h... Which from my POV is also total bull. Sure the Glavie has fucked up animations due to it's extreme length, but it is definitively slower than the GS's. Unless you got statistics to back that (imo) bullshit statement, then why should anyone believe you?

One thing I can agree about is the weight, where poles tend to beat 2h just, making for a pole advantage there. But I'd gladly have the weight "nerfed" to 2h levels since that would make me run faster.

Oh, and polestun is bs yes.

[Joker86]

Now, if I could get some real feed back, that would be great. Arguments, suggestions, agreeing and so on are all fair game.

Okay.

So I've noticed how happy melee-ers are. For months they Bit**** and complained about how "overpowered" archery was. So now we are underpowered, happy?

You are less powerfull than before. Everything else has to be shown yet.

The only thing I see is that melee complains about the only people who can kill them from far away.

The only people? Are there supposed to be more?

Ok, so archers could kill you with 3, 4, or 5 arrows to the body. SO WHAT. You could kill us in one swing, we never complain about that, do we?

Effort to see a target, point at it and click < effort to reach a target and defeat it in melee

Either way, I noticed that melee never complained how OP their weapons are? Being able to kill fully armoured people in one hit? Maybe 2.
So if archery gets nerfed. So should melee.

The life of infantry in cRPG has always been the hardest. The last sentence doesn't contain any logic. If what you said would be a general rule, how could you ever put things on the same level if they don't start euqally effective? If I nerf one thing I have to nerf the other, too. And if I buff one, I guess I should buff the other as well?

PS: Don't tell us to "stop complaining" because you guys did too, now it's our turn.

Well, some complaints are justified, some are not. You can't generalize like that.

P.S.: I support reverting that archery nerf, by the way. But I say and I will always say that archery was easymode compared to melee, the increasing numbers of archers in a game that's only special about its melee system proves everything.

[Overdriven]

Effort to see a target, point at it and click < effort to reach a target and defeat it in melee

The life of infantry in cRPG has always been the hardest.

 

[Joker86]

There are not doubts about. Or please prove me the opposite.

[Overdriven]

There are not doubts about. Or please prove me the opposite.

I rolled my eyes because we've had that argument to many times. Between us, and other people. It's a matter of opinion joker. It's not something that can be proved...only argued about in an endless circle.

[Leshma]

Nerf polearms and everything is fine.

Ranged is fine (dunno about throwing), 2h infantry is, 1h infantry definetly is, 1h cav is, polearm cav is, 2h cav is. Polearm infantry remains as the only op class. There's not a single good reason why you should not choose a polearm over any other melee class. It can stop horses, it can stagger the opponent and stun his weapon (high weight), it has  incredible reach, the by far highest damage overall (31 pierce stab on poleaxe eg) and same/higher speed as 2h (glaive for instance is as fast as danish gs allthough it has 2 less speedpoints according to the site).

Also the shield of 1h is still very usefull, BUT it slows you down alot and ranged is not that much of a threat anymore ('cause most archers are too bad to aim properly)

You can write this as many times as you want but the Supreme Polearm Overlord will never admit it. Better don't mention it or you'll get that argument how they reverted 2H right swing to previous speed so we shouldn't complain anymore lols. Silly poledevs.

About shields slowing players... there's always that popular Niuweidao + Buckler agi whore build (used to be Grosse Messer but since that shit got nerfed, min-maxing 15 year olds found their new favorite weapon).

[XyNox]

[...]
You are less powerfull than before. Everything else has to be shown yet.
[...]

[...]
Effort to see a target, point at it and click < effort to reach a target and defeat it in melee
[...]

[...]
The life of infantry in cRPG has always been the hardest.
[...]

Reading this once again lets me feel the need for a melee video guide / archer gameplay video as suggested here to show people what archery is acutally like, so ill bump it once again:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,24662.0.html

I do appreciate though that you are not looking at the nerf from an overly biased point of view.

[Joker86]

I rolled my eyes because we've had that argument to many times. Between us, and other people. It's a matter of opinion joker. It's not something that can be proved...only argued about in an endless circle.

Well, then I want to add my two cents about the whole matter to this discussion here, too, and I try to keep it as simple as possible:


Compare the amount, complexity and intervals (reflexes!) of inputs by mouse and keyboard needed for melee and for ranged fighting, then compare the (average) personal effects for you if you miss your block or miss your shot, and then finally compare how flexible melee and how flexible ranged are in their choice of targets and the amount of classes they can engage, and last but not least compare the time both classes spend literally fighting on the server, which means melee attacking other melee and archer shooting targets. (Running around or chasing some targets does not count).

You are free to post your opinion on this matter, I won't comment it further, so that anybody who reads this can decide for himself.

This is just another topic about the same matter, so people will read the same opinions of the same people again. But if this is the first topic of this kind they read, I want them to know my opinion. (It's nothing else than lobyying  )

[Overdriven]

MUST RESIST URGE TO....


No seriously I'm not getting drawn into this again and really can't be bothered as there is already a 33 page thread with this stuff in. Needless to say though, your opinion is very heavily biased so I hope people take that into account when they read your drivel.

[Joker86]

I do appreciate though that you are not looking at the nerf from an overly biased point of view.

Thanks. I really think the class has been killed that way, especially crossbowmen and throwers. I think they are an important part of a team, and I hope the developers will change it back soon. 

[Adamar]

How about 2 people 1 archer, 1 2hander make quick characters with opposite builds of what they usualy play(archer goes 2hander, 2hander goes archer) and then they both fight in 1 battle and post their score here, so we can really see whats hardest?

[bonekuukkeli]

Archer need to learn melee as well, so they are überhard. Case closed.