Please stop trying to "fix" the combat

[cmp]

Dear Players,

               Please stop complaining about us altering the game mechanics. Combat is getting closer to our vision with each new patch. We know you mean well, but you have to consider your opinion may not be shared by everyone, be it a dev or a player.

                                                                                Kicks and Bans,
                                                                                                 
                                                                                 cmpxchg8b

[dynamike]

Dear Medieval Warriors,

                          Please stop wearing heavy armor. It will become obsolete as soon as gunpowder is invented. You will feel stupid having huge pieces of metal hanging all over your body but still getting shot to death by tiny bullets, be if from a pistol or musket.

                                                               Death and no Glory,

                                                               dynamike

[Camaris]

Dear Captain Obvious,

please stop complaining about.... no i will not join this one ;)

[CrazyCracka420]

Well I think it is a problem that there have been so many nerfs in c-rpg to "balance" game play.  And then it causes another perceived imbalance so to fix it, they nerf the thing that's now more powerful (because of a previous nerf).

I wasn't around when it happened, but I'm assuming when you made arrows from pierce to cut then you saw a huge spike in people going to plated armor.  I think this recently happened again when you made pikes and long spears go from 2 slots to 3 slots.  There was a huge spike in the amount of people riding horses.  And (besides Kamikazi Joe and a few others stirring the pot) have seen quite a few people complaining there's too much cav in game (which I disagree with, if both teams have 50 people, and each team has 10 or less cav, that's not too many).  I have seen a large absence of pikes and long spears however, at most I usually see 2 or 3 (total in the server) using pikes or long spears. 

I just think that after 2 years or however long c-rpg has been around, you'd have figured out the whole "class balance" thing.  I also think that most of the time a nerf isn't necessary and that a change in game play or tactics by the players is what is needed.

I do think certain game mechanic changes are a good thing, and should keep on implementing them as the devs see fit (like making weapons go from all being 1 slot, to having 2 or 3 slot weapons).  I think making the cav lance radius from about 220 degrees to about 45 degrees was a good change (I think it should be slightly opened up a bit, but I digress).  I think having secondary modes on weapons was a great implementation (even if someone used the algorithm to show that the secondary mode in every weapon is worse than the original mode, even on armor at 65 or 70).   I'd like to see cav be able to stab down as a secondary weapon mode with a lance (so you can stab in front of your horse downward, or turn and stab downward behind your horses ass). 

Dear Players,

               Please stop complaining about us altering the game mechanics. Combat is getting closer to our vision with each new patch. We know you mean well, but you have to consider your opinion may not be shared by everyone, be it a dev or a player.

                                                                                Kicks and Bans,
                                                                                                 
                                                                                 cmpxchg8b

Game mechanics are what you should be focusing on .  Tweaking individual item's every patch and changing the requirement of items is not game mechanic changes.  It's nerfing and buffing items and causing people to have to adapt (read: change their builds and equipment) with every patch.  I think the classes are and have always been pretty much balanced, even with all the nerfing and buffing that has been done.  I wish the players didn't have to constantly adapt based on the most recent patch (which has no documentation to go along with it, so the information isn't even accurate that players are basing their builds on).

[Oberyn]

There's no such thing as perfect balance, as any multiplayer game has shown. And cRPG doesn't really have a simple rock/paper/scissors mechanic, so the balancing is even harder to get "right". And of course people will always have differing opinions about what is balanced or not.
i.e balance is an ongoing thing that must be tweeked constantly. And apparently the dev team has a Vision™ , so it's not just aimless balancing, but heading somewhere. I have no idea where the fuck to, but it'll be interesting to see.

[CrazyCracka420]

You'll never have things 100% balanced.  And what are they aiming to achieve with balance?  Do they want balance to mean about equal numbers of every class in game?  Or do they want balance to mean any class can 1v1 any other class with a pretty much equal chance at winning?   Cav should be weak to pikemen.  Archers should be weak to cav.  People without shields should be weak to archers. 

I don't think taking away a classes natural strengths is "balance".  Sometimes the players just need to adapt and change their tactics.  I still don't think anything is that unbalanced (or has ever been that unbalanced) that it required dev intervention. 

[ManOfWar]

Dear Players,

               Please stop complaining about us altering the game mechanics. Combat is getting closer to our vision with each new patch. We know you mean well, but you have to consider your opinion may not be shared by everyone, be it a dev or a player.

                                                                                Kicks and Bans,
                                                                                                 
                                                                                 cmpxchg8b

If the community is not complaining about current combat - By that I mean a concentrated effort to change a game mechanic.

Then why bother changing it? Or have you pushed the needs and wants of the community aside for your own desires?

[dynamike]

Huseby, what is the message you are trying to convey?

You are saying that changes need to be made in some cases, but not others and that there is a need to balance but balance can never be fully achieved. You don't like that people have to adapt to changes but tell the devs to focus on changing things.

I am not understanding what you are getting at.

[Xant]

If the community is not complaining about current combat - By that I mean a concentrated effort to change a game mechanic.

Then why bother changing it? Or have you pushed the needs and wants of the community aside for your own desires?

chadz has said from the start that he is developing the mod to what he wants it to be, not what the community wants it to be. Paraphrased.

[CrazyCracka420]

Huseby, what is the message you are trying to convey?

You are saying that changes need to be made in some cases, but not others and that there is a need to balance but balance can never be fully achieved. You don't like that people have to adapt to changes but tell the devs to focus on changing things.

I am not understanding what you are getting at.

I'm saying it's cool that they have implemented some features to the game that otherwise wouldn't be there.  These obviously cause classes to be stronger and weaker, but not a direct nerf or buff. I'm okay with those changes.  I don't think they should be tweaking item stats, and trying to actively balance classes (forcing people to change their builds, and making their equipment they've loomed obsolete compared to other items and equipment). 

An example that I know of that recently fucked over a lot of people was changing the difficulty of horses.  Coursers went from 4 to 6, and my bro (TommyHu) who has retired 6 or 7 times was never going to retire again, and he was riding his +3 courser with 4 riding.  When it went up to 6 difficulty, this long time player who never was going to retire again, was forced to retire or respec just to use the equipment he's been building up for, for months and months (more likely years).  And ended up just saying fuck c-rpg for about 3 months.

That's just one example, I don't think the balance needs to be constantly tweaked.  I think the classes all have strengths and weaknesses, and people need to exploit them, and use tactics to counter them (not rely on the dev's to nerf something). 

I don't like how they nerf something (like say making arrows go from pierce to cut) and then they scratch their head when everyone's running around in tin cans.  Or they nerf pikes/long spears from 2 to 3 slots, and then they scratch their head when there's now way more horses on the servers.  And then to fix the tin cans, they nerf plated armor.  And to fix the cav issue they'll probably think nerfing cav is the solution.  Nerfs on top of nerfs seem to be the way c-rpg has been headed for a long time, and I think it's a bad idea.

chadz has said from the start that he is developing the mod to what he wants it to be, not what the community wants it to be. Paraphrased.

I generally think that's a good idea.  But they really should have a handful of their most trusted, respected, and "smart" players, on some sort of "steering" committee to brain storm pro's and con's before they make real big "balance" changes.  Basically a cross-section of players, dev's, admins, etc who can give their input (and the dev's and chadz specifically can take it or leave it). 

[cmp]

I generally think that's a good idea.  But they really should have a handful of their most trusted, respected, and "smart" players, on some sort of "steering" committee to brain storm pro's and con's before they make real big "balance" changes.  Basically a cross-section of players, dev's, admins, etc who can give their input (and the dev's and chadz specifically can take it or leave it).

We have that, it's called item balance team.

[CrazyCracka420]

Glad to see you have that cross-section to give input...but do items really need to be constantly balanced and re-balanced?  Is there ever going to reach a state of "good enough" and let the players adapt to the settings you choose?  Or will players constantly have to change their builds to adapt to the new stats/difficulty of items with every patch?

[Prinz_Karl]

Instead of nerfing every type of weapon that is better (the way I see it) you could improve the other weapons.

[Xant]

We have that, it's called item balance team.

He said most trusted, respected and smart players.

what you have is fasaderp, okin and shik.

[B3RS3RK]

Combat is getting closer to our vision with each new patch.

Snail races are your Vision?

Just kidding.