Author Topic: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America  (Read 19660 times)

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Offline Ujin

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Offline Kafein

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #166 on: January 26, 2012, 03:52:58 am »
+1
Every time Ron Paul opens his mouth, he makes sense to me. That's quite incredible given he's on campaign in the US. I don't agree all the time though, but atleast he has a well-thought program and he actually tells what he's going to do with numbers, not just what he tries to acheive. He's not afraid of showing the complexity of politics to the voters, he doesn't consider them as brainless votes on legs unlike all the other candidates and that is really something I like.

However, this time I would have said in my first answer : "Let's not waste our 3 minutes on that topic." and she would be like terrified about having a coherent conversation on an interesting subject. Would have been epic.

Offline Nessaj

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #167 on: January 28, 2012, 04:05:47 am »
-1
Latest debate.

Ron Paul Highlights - CNN Florida Debate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKjCEn7ad7E

Excellent video, must see for anyone truly interested in who should lead the biggest military power in the World.

Edit;

Also:

WSJ Economist: Ron Paul's 0% Income Tax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjCq6woC_hg
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 10:03:11 am by Nessaj »
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #168 on: January 28, 2012, 06:53:06 am »
0
Eh, the crisis was caused by too MUCH regulation of the banking industry? This guy is living in a parrallel dream world.
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Offline Nessaj

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #169 on: January 28, 2012, 09:05:47 am »
0
On the contrary, common misconception regarding regulations, obviously some are good, some are bad. The regulations needed aren't there and those which corrupt the system are, in short lobbyists flood the legislation system.

If you want a truly comprehensive view of how the system work I recommend the wonderful documentary Inside Job (imdb) (trailer)
Quote
'Inside Job' provides a comprehensive analysis of the global financial crisis of 2008, which at a cost over $20 trillion, caused millions of people to lose their jobs and homes in the worst recession since the Great Depression, and nearly resulted in a global financial collapse. Through exhaustive research and extensive interviews with key financial insiders, politicians, journalists, and academics, the film traces the rise of a rogue industry which has corrupted politics, regulation, and academia. It was made on location in the United States, Iceland, England, France, Singapore, and China.

Narrated by Mr Bourne aka Matt Damon.
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Offline Xant

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #170 on: January 28, 2012, 11:49:35 am »
0
I wouldn't believe what that guy says, he's an assassin.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #171 on: January 28, 2012, 11:55:57 am »
0
Freddie May and Fannie Mac were responsible for under 5 percent of the total derivatives market, maybe even less. Bundling a bunch of crap and rating it AAA then selling it through dozens of differents owners for quick profits, knowing full well the shit was going to hit the fan eventually, had absolutely nothing to do with the government. What regulations would Ron Paul put in place to deal with that type of scam? Oh that's right, none, because government shouldn't ever get into the way of the gloriously perfect "free market".

"Libertarians are sectarian, and their tolerance does not extend beyond their ideology.

The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector. They will abuse their power regardless of where they perch. That is why government needs to be tied down by the Constitution and the private sector by regulation. Yes, regulation can go too far. Certainly, deregulation has gone too far."

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/01/23/how-libertarian-dogmatists-are-sabotaging-ron-pauls-campaign/
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #172 on: January 28, 2012, 12:09:38 pm »
0
Warning, long post ahead:

One of the biggest chestnuts on the whole debate about what led to the financial crisis is the whole harping about Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae and CRA, one which Ron Paul wholeheartedly endorses. It is extremely frustrating to hear the CRA meme continuing to thrive after all this time, not least due to the "fair and balanced" media.

"Subprime" DOES NOT EQUAL "POOR" or "MINORITY".

When you hear that 80 percent of all loans were subprime, and that TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of loans were made during the bubble, you have to be unthinking to take that to mean they were loans given to minorities. It is ignorance of the scale of the loans being made. EVERYONE was given a sub-prime loan. Even if you had perfect credit, you were conned into a sub-prime loan. Upper middle class people were put into sub-prime loans.

The idea this was a problem traced to getting minorities into homes is a stupid, racist joke!

And to believe the rules were changed to get more loans to minorities ignores the fact that the subprime bubble EXISTED ALL OVER THE INDUSTRIAL WORLD, NOT JUST IN THE US!

The reasons the number of loans were ramped up is simple. Banks needed cash. Interest rates were low because Greenspan wanted to goose the economy, which meant safe investments had worthless returns. So to make money, you had to take big risks on gigantic economies of scale. And that requires a boatload of cash and lots of leveraging. So borrowing began to skyrocket so that hedge funds and Wall Street dealers could leverage their bets in the markets. In order to provide the cash those dealers needed, banks had to come up with cash to loan to them. The banks came up with cash by selling securities. To sell securities, you have to create securities. To create securities you have to get people to take out home loans, auto loans, home equity loans, and run up their credit cards. It's all about the carry trade. You get people to take out home loans and then sell those loans to investors and then use that money to loan out in the commercial paper market for quick-turnaround funding to the bettors on Wall Street. Extremely profitable.

Understand? A whole lotta long term debt is financed with short term loans that have to be constantly rolled over. That's the way of the world now. That's why things crashed. The short debt was unable to be rolled over. Credit freeze because no one knew who was insolvent.

The idiot Cavuto and the Fox minions still haven't gotten it through their thick heads yet that the CRA had NOTHING to do with their operations. This was some idiotic idea some Republicans in Congress got into their heads in the first days after Lehman collapsed. And yet when asked, Nick Fuld plainly said "de minimus" when asked if getting loans to minorities had anything to do with his brokerage imploding.

It was an idiot question asked by clueless lawmakers who don't know a CDO from a booger in their nose. The finanical world had moved way, way, way, way past their Old Testament understanding.

So loans were made on an unprecedented scale. Which meant that EVERY demographic was increasing home ownership. Gee, what a shock the politicians of the time took credit for something which happened to "benefit" the poor. This ignores the fact these schemes were "benefitting" everyone.

The INTENT of the increase in loans was not to get more minorities into homes. That was an effect, not the cause or the motive. The intent of the increase in loans was to get as many people as possible all over the first world to borrow money so those loans could be securitized and sold to raise cash.

When your aim is to get as many people to borrow as much money as possible, you are naturally going to throw the old underwriting rules of the Universe out the window.

You see, a guy like Cavuto zeroes in on some black woman who works at Wal-Mart who got a loan for $200,000 and says, "See? It's all about the minorities!" And he will work hard to feed that confirmation bias by showing you an over-representation of minorities who screwed up.

He is absolutely correct that a minimum wage worker should not borrow $200,000.

What he ignores, though, is that you also have a guy who makes $60,000 who got a loan for $500,000. He ignores the fact that everyone was being pushed into borrowing more than they could afford, not just minorities.

The more money you make, the more you can borrow. And that means the more that can be securitized. Understand? So the goal is to get everyone to borrow as much as possible.

Once you understand that simple plan, then the idea the banks were somehow focused on minorities becomes ludicrous. Why limit yourself to minorities who can't borrow anything near what better off people can borrow?

You see how stupid it is to believe this was all about getting minorities into homes? They aren't the ones with the big bucks that are needed to be moved up to the boys on Wall Street. They are just a drop in the bucket that needs to be filled. A $500,000 sub-prime loan made to a middle class sucker will make way, way more profit than a $200,000 sub-prime loan made to a minority. So let's fudge everyone's paperwork, get this crap out of our hands as quickly as possible into the hands of our misled investors, and then make some REAL money.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 12:21:01 pm by Oberyn »
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #173 on: January 28, 2012, 12:30:16 pm »
0
Financial Crisis was avoidable:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/business/economy/26inquiry.html?_r=1

"The report does knock down — at least partly — several early theories for the financial crisis. It says the low interest rates brought about by the Fed after the 2001 recession; Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage finance giants; and the “aggressive homeownership goals” set by the government as part of a “philosophy of opportunity” were not major culprits.

On the other hand, the report is harsh on regulators. It finds that the Securities and Exchange Commission failed to require big banks to hold more capital to cushion potential losses and halt risky practices, and that the Fed “neglected its mission.”

It says the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which regulates some banks, and the Office of Thrift Supervision, which oversees savings and loans, blocked states from curbing abuses because they were “caught up in turf wars.”

“The crisis was the result of human action and inaction, not of Mother Nature or computer models gone haywire,” the report states. “The captains of finance and the public stewards of our financial system ignored warnings and failed to question, understand and manage evolving risks within a system essential to the well-being of the American public. Theirs was a big miss, not a stumble.”

The report’s implications may be felt more in the political realm than in public policy. The Dodd-Frank law overhauling the regulation of Wall Street, signed in July, took as its premise the same regulatory deficiencies cited by the commission. But the report is sure to be a factor in the debate over the future of Fannie and Freddie, which have been run by the government since 2008. "

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Offline Xant

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #174 on: January 28, 2012, 01:21:28 pm »
0
spammer
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Kafein

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #175 on: January 28, 2012, 05:35:52 pm »
0
"Subprimes" still happen now.

Just watch TV for 10 minutes and count the number of ads where you could buy things and pay afterwards, effectively making a loan without anyone asking you wether you are able to pay.

Offline Nessaj

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #176 on: January 29, 2012, 07:06:49 am »
0
The cops are moving in on some Occupy protests: http://www.ustream.tv/occupyoakland - quite "interesting" steam, or at least it was, there were some brutal shit going on earlier :o pretty disgusting to watch. Seems quite settled now though that they arrested everyone.
Things don't exist simply because you believe in them, thus sayeth the almighty creature in the sky!

Offline Christo

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #177 on: January 29, 2012, 04:43:13 pm »
0
Every time Ron Paul opens his mouth, he makes sense to me. That's quite incredible given he's on campaign in the US. I don't agree all the time though, but atleast he has a well-thought program and he actually tells what he's going to do with numbers, not just what he tries to acheive. He's not afraid of showing the complexity of politics to the voters, he doesn't consider them as brainless votes on legs unlike all the other candidates and that is really something I like.

And that's why he won't win the election.

Sadly.
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Offline iron_mat

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #178 on: January 29, 2012, 11:47:55 pm »
-2
He won't win because he's dumb, he wants Mahmoud to get his nukes!

Offline MeevarTheMighty

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Re: A Message to the Citizens of the United States of America
« Reply #179 on: January 30, 2012, 07:08:54 am »
0
Chiming in from Australia, the other Republican candidates seem like clowns and I'd as soon vote for Sarah Palin. I'd say this could be America's last chance for a long time to elect a genuine statesman.