Slowass Combat speed

[Siiem]

I just read every fkn post, entertaining thread. Thank you Tzar, you're becoming famous, just like Sarah Palin.

[Tzar]

Thx Semen an your valued input is appreciated we have learned alot from your brilliant posting so far..

Infact im almost certain everyone now have settled with this recent change thx for your amazing insight about this speed issue..

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[Siiem]

Infact im almost certain everyone now have settled with this recent change thx for your amazing insight about this speed issue..

Glad I could be of service.

[ManOfWar]

I find it retarded that they nerfed the 2h right swing..


WHEN NOBODY WAS GOD DAMN COMPLAINING,

IF IT IS NOT BROKE< DO NOT FIX IT, FUCK!

[wayyyyyne]

Now we only need to stop complaining about ladders being (ab)used in battle and it will be fixed in no time.

[Tydeus]

So faster reflexes is skill, but better endurance isn't? According to who?

It's pretty hard to argue that slower speeds take the same amount of skill. Fast means more than just reflexes. You have to be able to analyze your opponents faster while still maintaining high accuracy and quality of judgement. Not to mention in M&B specifically, you have less time to correct an incorrect block. Simply put, you have to be faster. Meanwhile, with a slower game, the only thing you can call "skill" is "endurance". But really, what's that? Certainly it's not physical endurance, you don't need to train yourself physically for days to reach that point. Endurance in that you need to be able to maintain interest while putting up with boring mechanics that give defensive playing styles the edge over offensive ones.

Sure, we can all adapt and each of us can play with defensive styles and long weapons(if you're playing a defensive game, you might as well pick up a long weapon so you can back pedal spam while you do it). But that doesn't mean that we'll be having fun doing it. It's like before there was upkeep. Str builds and plate were superior(aside from the few who abused retirement to get 300+ wpf) but str builds and heavy armor isn't fun, comparatively. I don't know anyone aside from goretooth that has been able to consistently stay with a str build and plate. It's just not as fun of a play style the same way current mechanics give the edge to play styles that most people just don't find fun.

[Kafein]

I'm an average (you might say bad honestly) 2h player, and I'm doing ok against most melee, and especially 1h. They can't really enjoy their weapon speed advantage when I keep on moving on the sides and backwards, since with their shields they are a lot slower than me, even though I got only 15 agi.

Interestingly, blocking seems much easier with a 2hander than with my KAS. With the 1h, I often block down instead of on the side, and it doesn't happen with the GGS. Most of my deaths seem to be either due to being overwhelmed, shot or missing an anticav attack.

[Tydeus]

Interestingly, blocking seems much easier with a 2hander than with my KAS. With the 1h, I often block down instead of on the side, and it doesn't happen with the GGS. Most of my deaths seem to be either due to being overwhelmed, shot or missing an anticav attack.

You're not alone there. A longer range weapon means you don't have to be as close to your opponent to hit and when you're further away, you have to turn your mouse less to keep your opponent in the center of your screen. Furthermore, I believe the 1h left/right block animations put the sword more in front of you than to the side like it is with Two handers and polearms which lowers the total angle of coverage from each block. So you have to rely much more on footwork with a short weapon than you do with a longer one.

[Huey Newton]

Sure, we can all adapt and each of us can play with defensive styles and long weapons(if you're playing a defensive game, you might as well pick up a long weapon so you can back pedal spam while you do it). But that doesn't mean that we'll be having fun doing it. It's like before there was upkeep. Str builds and plate were superior(aside from the few who abused retirement to get 300+ wpf) but str builds and heavy armor isn't fun, comparatively. I don't know anyone aside from goretooth that has been able to consistently stay with a str build and plate. It's just not as fun of a play style the same way current mechanics give the edge to play styles that most people just don't find fun.

what's fun is subjective and never determined by consensus 

[cmp]

It's pretty hard to argue that slower speeds take the same amount of skill. Fast means more than just reflexes. You have to be able to analyze your opponents faster while still maintaining high accuracy and quality of judgement. Not to mention in M&B specifically, you have less time to correct an incorrect block. Simply put, you have to be faster. Meanwhile, with a slower game, the only thing you can call "skill" is "endurance". But really, what's that? Certainly it's not physical endurance, you don't need to train yourself physically for days to reach that point. Endurance in that you need to be able to maintain interest while putting up with boring mechanics that give defensive playing styles the edge over offensive ones.

You may have had a valid point, but you ruined it in the last sentence by not even trying to hide your subjectivity (which basically proves my point).

[Tydeus]

what's fun is subjective and never determined by consensus 

You may have had a valid point, but you ruined it in the last sentence by not even trying to hide your subjectivity (which basically proves my point).

Indeed "fun" is subjective, but I don't think that's actually the issue. Whether you define getting the most fun as killing lots of people, winning each round or running around with 13 shield skill simply to annoy others; your opinion of what is the most fun is just a reaction to game mechanics. Take away people's ability to have an unbreakable shield any anyone who thought that was the most fun, now has a new definition with a different play style and is most likely having less fun than before.

Defensive playstyles have been consistently (indirectly) buffed in crpg with nearly every patch since I started playing over a year ago. So much so that, at least in a duel, if you're fighting someone that is rather offensive, you put them at a huge disadvantage. Which means, if they want to win or get the kill, they have to switch to an equally defensive playstyle. Thus you have limited fun by making a playstyle less viable(and it just so happens that this defensive playstyle takes much, much less skill to accomplish effectively) and the extremes of this case can most easily be seen in the duel server.

Basically this: A playstyle that a lot of people found as being the most fun, has been nerfed to no longer being viable which in turn, limits fun.

[cmp]

I could say the same thing about the opposite situation (i.e. making the game faster limits fun for those who prefer it slower). What exactly is that supposed to prove?

[Tzar]

I could say the same thing about the opposite situation (i.e. making the game faster limits fun for those who prefer it slower). What exactly is that supposed to prove?

If you would make a poll or at least look at the poll´s regarding the change all ready an begin listing to the community an the majority instead of looking at kill stats maybe we could have some more fun rather then abandoning builds an classes just because you the devs wants to shift people into using other builds..

Imho i think the majority prefer you revert the change dont fix what aint broken  : dont force people to play defensive why cant we have both options dear leader  :

[Xant]

Focusing on defense and consistency has its own charm as well, but honestly it's getting a bit too easy to keep up with any feints. I think the latest change was unnecessary. If you want to get rid of hiltslash, fine, but slowing down an attack direction is using a sledgehammer on a nail.

[cmp]

Focusing on defense and consistency has its own charm as well, but honestly it's getting a bit too easy to keep up with any feints. I think the latest change was unnecessary. If you want to get rid of hiltslash, fine, but slowing down an attack direction is using a sledgehammer on a nail.

You're welcome to lend me your hammer. You have it, right?