Athletics for archers

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

saying that he should just man up and not get into the situation again while he has explicitly stated that sooner or later unless you get lucky with having ranged superiority you ARE going to get into that situation.

Know what?

Life sucks sometimes

[CaptainQuantum]

This thread has quite clearly derailed, I am a 2h and don't mind being raped by archers, they are meant to. My problem with archery is nothing to do with my class but it is that shielders can't kill them alone due to most archers kiting. I find this incredibly silly from a balance perspective since most of this game works of a counter system, which is the reason archers should "pwn" me, yet the counter to ranged (shielders) is no longer a counter. The way I play archer and have always done is that when the last alive, if the person reaches me I have failed. If the player is a shielder I will ready my bow and attempt to sidestep the shield which works if the shielder doesn't anticipate it. But after that I will enter melee combat with them, I have my tiny 1h hammer and 3 PS but I can manual block for a long time and can actually sometimes win. I will actually kite too if and only if I have team mates alive, since I can run to them for protection and this should be possible.

To summarise, archery isn't inherently overpowered, it's just the way it is sometimes played. A mechanic needs to be thought up on how to stop the archer (who is the last alive) from kiting an infantryman until he is out of arrows. This is not the way archery should work. But as for nerfing athletics for archers, just no, since that will have far too many repurcussions.

[Tomas]

What do people actually want here???

Some people seem to want every class to be the perfect counter to every other class.  Its daft, why not just scrap all the classes except 2H and make everybody use the same build, armour and weapon. Then the game will be balanced!

Classes have weaknesses, they are part of the game.  The fact is that if you name the regular EU1 table toppers you can name people from every class.  Chase (2H), Polepoop, Bazinga and Tor (Polearm), Torben & Leed (Cav), Tuonela (HA), Tenne & Tamerlan (Archer), DaveUKR (Xbow), Cyber & Ramses (1H/Shield).  In fact the only class I can't name someone for is throwing but that's hardly surprising as throwers only get limited ammo before having to switch to melee.  Sorry to some of the Nord, 22nd, Grey, Bashibazouk and DRZ players that haven't been named above but deserve to be.  Names are escaping me

The main problem with archers seems to be that they tend to survive until the end of rounds (either by camping or kiting) and then drag them out whilst all those dead melee players have to sit there and watch.  This isn't the archers fault though and they certainly don't deserve to be constantly nerfed for it.  The best solution I can think of is to just disable ALL ranged weapons once a certain % of the server has died.  80% dead would prob work, although 20% still alive might be easier to code.

[CaptainQuantum]

Some people seem to want every class to be the perfect counter to every other class.  Its daft, why not just scrap all the classes except 2H and make everybody use the same build, armour and weapon. Then the game will be balanced!

I don't think anyone wants the latter, but the earlier I see a lot of people wanting, certainly not me since that would not be a challenge.

Sorry to some of the Nord, 22nd, Grey, Bashibazouk and DRZ players that haven't been named above but deserve to be.  Names are escaping me

Shame on you, how can you forget Phyrex & Phase & Rantrex (2h), Jambi (archer), LoR & Dahli (1h). I also believe Chase is 1h now so he is in the wrong section. As for throwers MrFasole and Locco are deadly with throwing since they almost never miss.

The main problem with archers seems to be that they tend to survive until the end of rounds (either by camping or kiting) and then drag them out whilst all those dead melee players have to sit there and watch.  This isn't the archers fault though and they certainly don't deserve to be constantly nerfed for it.  The best solution I can think of is to just disable ALL ranged weapons once a certain % of the server has died.  80% dead would prob work, although 20% still alive might be easier to code.

Started off correct, suggestion is completely silly, that would mean just by chance if you were an archer left at the end of the round you would now have no use. I just think there needs to be about running and shooting until you are out of arrows, I do not mind running whilst drawing a bow and shooting. It's the people who just run for a while then shoot when they have 10 m (rinse, repeat) which bothers me, but to be honest I haven't seen anything like this for a long time. Maybe a rule could be made against the latter kind of kiting, and only if the player is the last alive because as stated earlier ranged should be able to kite people back to their team mates as I sometimes do with 2h.

[Xant]

posting in what is now an e-peen thread

[Gurnisson]

Btw, upkeep isn't really something you can post, as archers lose more money than all other people, except for those with heavy plate stuff or high tier horses.

What are you on about? I have alts for almost every class and was archer on my main for a generation too, and I've always been swimming in money as archer. My archer makes more than my thrower, my two-hander, my polearm, my one-hander, my cav, my horse archer and my horse xbow, by far.

[Arrowblood]

 if u use gaybow or no bodkins

[Gurnisson]

My archer alt has both bodkin and tatars, as well as the top three bows. Change according to number of enemies and their armour. Used tatar arrows and rus bow when I was archer on my main.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

What are you on about? I have alts for almost every class and was archer on my main for a generation too, and I've always been swimming in money as archer. My archer makes more than my thrower, my two-hander, my polearm, my one-hander, my cav, my horse archer and my horse xbow, by far.

Play with longbow and bodkins the whole time and then be unlucky with multis ;)

[Gurnisson]

Play with longbow and bodkins the whole time and then be unlucky with multis ;)

Don't whine about upkeep when you use the most expensive weapons for your class.

[CaptainQuantum]

posting in what is now an e-peen thread

Oh sorry I missed Xant/Siiem(CM now) and Kansuke for 1h. ("Xant/Siiem" because I am pretty certain you guys are quite literally stuck together with some adhesive)

As for the topic on bodkins I don't seem to have problems too often maintaining them on my archer, I switched between using bodkins and barbed the whole generation (equal times on each) and had earned 80000 when I hit level 30. I may get a slightly higher multipliers though since I play this alt more when the 22nd are in full force (benefits of being in the 22nd ).

[Tydeus]

And then you conclude with this, bravo. saying that he should just man up and not get into the situation again while he has explicitly stated that sooner or later unless you get lucky with having ranged superiority you ARE going to get into that situation.

I have no problem with archers running and kiting but to say that there's really anything melee can do that doesn't just amount to chasing them, is ridiculous.

There are only poor and better ways of chasing archers.

[Tomas]

Shame on you, how can you forget Phyrex & Phase & Rantrex (2h), Jambi (archer), LoR & Dahli (1h). I also believe Chase is 1h now so he is in the wrong section. As for throwers MrFasole and Locco are deadly with throwing since they almost never miss.

I can't keep up with chase these days - last week he was a Crossbowman but he still topped the score board.  Just proves the point even more though

Started off correct, suggestion is completely silly, that would mean just by chance if you were an archer left at the end of the round you would now have no use.

Right now if a 2H is left alone against 3 archers then the 2H has practically no use so i don't think this point is particularly valid.  Also, most archers responce to whinging 2Handers is to tell them to "stick a point in shield skill and grab a shield", the same can be said of archers - with my idea implemented they will just need to make sure they can melee

The point is that as it is a game mechanic change, it is constant and everybody is free to alter their builds/playstyle to adapt as they wish.  Perhaps after the dust settles the devs might decide to un-nerf ranged a bit, perhaps not but in the meantime the idea speeds up the end of rounds, solves the roof camping problem (unless the entire team does it), gets people to respawn quicker and therefore people more time actually playing rather than watching kiting archers for 2 mins

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

I'm not whining about the bodkin upkeep, it's fine.
But stating upkeep as something that buffed ranged is just ridiculous ;)

[CaptainQuantum]

Right now if a 2H is left alone against 3 archers then the 2H has practically no use so i don't think this point is particularly valid.  Also, most archers responce to whinging 2Handers is to tell them to "stick a point in shield skill and grab a shield", the same can be said of archers - with my idea implemented they will just need to make sure they can melee.

There is a large difference in the response to the 2h and yours to archers though, for 2h with 1 point in shield skill it's likely you took that from IF and so the 2h lost 2 HP, which is not that major. Now for ranged doing this would be asking them to go up against at the worst a 2h/pole with a 1h hammer, now thats a major change to their play style. I play 2h most of the time and I struggle against even moderate 2h/polearm player with the archer hammer especially if the 2h/pole backwalks, imagine what it would be for an archer unskilled in melee to face a good duelist in melee? That is completely unfair on the archer, it's a very bad idea since forcing an archer in to melee is silly, they just shouldn't be able to run once someone gets into melee range when they are the last alive.