[balance] Steel Pick, Warhammer and Bec de corbin

[Cup1d]

Let's compare this weapons

Bec de Corbin
weapon length: 120
weight: 2.8
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 93
weapon length: 120
thrust damage: 26 pierce
swing damage: 34 pierce
slots: 2
Secondary Mode
Price 10,806

Warhammer
weapon length: 65
weight: 3
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 97
weapon length: 65
thrust damage: 18 pierce
swing damage: 31 blunt
slots: 1
Knockdown
Secondary Mode
Price 9,815

Steel Pick
weapon length: 64
weight: 2.2
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 99
weapon length: 64
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 32 pierce
slots: 1
Secondary Mode
Price 8,373

Similarity
All this weapons are almost shortest weapons in their category. (I'm not  count useless 0 slot 1handers, and Long Axe is only one shorter than Bec weapon in polearms section)
All this weapons are tincan hunter choice, as long as Pierce\blunt damage is good enough versus armor.
All this weapons can be used on horseback (TBH in both cases it's not best choice for your effectiveness) Still it possible to kill something, and block while you are use your horse.
All this weapons have almost same swing damage (2 points of damage is not big difference)
Both Bec and pick do not have special abilities (crushtrough, knockdown, bonus versus shield, couchable etc...). Warhammer have Knockdown.
Both Bec and Warhammer have 15 str as requirement


Difference
Bec can't be used with shield
Steel pick doesn't have thrust attack
Steel pick can(and must) be used with shield
Steel pick have only 12 str as requirement
Steel pick cost 2,5k gold less, warhammer cost 1k less than Bec
Steel pick and warhammer is much faster weapons (99 ans 97 versus 93)
Steel pick and warhammer are one slot weapons
Steel pick have one of the best damage output for 1H weapons
Warhammer have knockdown

Conclusion
Steel pick is really good weapon. Too good to be honest. You can pair this thingy with fast shield and be awesome without difficulties (autoblock included)
Warahammer at least balanced with cost and 15 str Requirements. Still it's great weapon.
Bec de corbin is only mediocre weapon. Yes, there are some people that can use this weapon with good effectivity, but this people often can kill you with practice dagger too.

Suggestion
I'm not a balance master, but I've got some proposals

1. Give Blunt damage and knockdown to Bec, make 33 blunt as base swing damage for Bec. (two points more than Warhammer)
or
2. Give Bec 33 Blunt damage and Bonus versus Shield, but do not give knockdown.
or
3. Leave Bec as it is, but make it 1 slot weapon. this thingy is not longer than Shortened spear.

Damn, this is a Hammer, HAMMER. not a silly, pink, short as dick pick weapon with pierce damage.
Just look at Bec de Corbin and warhammer. It's  sameWarhammer with longer shaft, this weapon must do BLUNT damage. and Knockdown.

Donkey Justice, help us...

[Ujin]

mw arbalest +a mw bec de corbin.. hmmm . Yes, i see now. Respeccing.

[Elmokki]

It does look like, not Bec de Corbin, but a Lucerne hammer indeed, so blunt damage and knockdown might be okay. In any case, it's weight is 2.8 which is 0.2 worse than warhammer, so the knockdown wouldn't be THAT powerful. How is the bec secondary mode though? It is blunt, but how does the speed change?

It can't be 1 slot since it'd be hands down the best non-shield 1 slot weapon in the game then.

[Inkompetent]

Well, it's nice with the fairly unique thing about the Bec: It is a pretty long pierce-swing weapon.

It is indeed pretty slow though for its range. It is about as fast as weapons that either outrange it by far (other polearms), or that have more beneficial animations (2h swords *cough*).

I do kind'a like the bonus against shields though. Driving that 'beak' through someone's shield ought to wear the shield out pretty fast (and lose you the Bec since it gets stuck, but that can be said for more weapons and isn't a feature of the game anyway).

[zagibu]

I remember the knockdown bec from ages past. It was OP. Current bec is balanced.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Bec de Corbin was a weapon that was meant to pierce through armours, that's why it has the pick on one side.

And you can use it in secondary mode for blunt damage.

Why onehand? It is a polearm weapon, so leave it polearm. Not every polearm has to be 5 meters long^^

Bec de Corbin is a very fast and strong weapon, but atm it's quite balanced.


I agree with you, that the stealpick is very strong, but it would then be better to nerf it slightly instead of buffing the other weapons.

[Xant]

Steelpick is way overrated. Good luck playing against a decent player when using it. You'll get outreached and kickslashed. (not saying it's impossible, but you'll be at a huge disadvantage and have to play super defensively and carefully.)

[Cup1d]

Bec de Corbin was a weapon that was meant to pierce through armours, that's why it has the pick on one side.

No. This Pick was used mainly for grappling techniques to bring down your opponent. Also as Hook for dismounting enemy horsemans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTVC25hYJaY
Or here - folio 37-42   http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Paulus_Kal_Fechtbuch_(CGM_1507)

As long as main part of this weapon tricks was used to bring your opponent down, I'm sure that knockdown is integral part of this weapon.

I remember the knockdown bec from ages past. It was OP. Current bec is balanced.

Look here mate:

Long Hafted Spiked Mace
weapon length: 138
weight: 3
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 91
weapon length: 138
thrust damage: 20 blunt
swing damage: 32 blunt
slots: 2
Unbalanced
Knockdown
6,819

+18 length
Blunt damage
Knockdown
Cost 4K less

Conclusion?
No one use it...


Also I think that in «alternative mod» you must hold Bec this way:
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All I want it's historical accuracy. This weapon was designed for Blunt and Pierce damage and Knockdown.

[Fluffy_Muffin]

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/board,69.0.html

Balance wise there is no reason to change this weapon

[isatis]

Look here mate:

Long Hafted Spiked Mace
weapon length: 138
weight: 3
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 91
weapon length: 138
thrust damage: 20 blunt
swing damage: 32 blunt
slots: 2
Unbalanced
Knockdown
6,819

+18 length
Blunt damage
Knockdown
Cost 4K less

Conclusion?
No one use it...

you forgot some part to it.

bec is good at this stade, ask old player when bec was blunt, they dream that it will return!
steel pick as already been nerfed but, yes it could be higher in cost (+1k or 2k)
warhammer is small but balanced

[Cup1d]

you forgot some part to it.

bec is good at this stade, ask old player when bec was blunt, they dream that it will return!
steel pick as already been nerfed but, yes it could be higher in cost (+1k or 2k)
warhammer is small but balanced

I don't care about Unbalanced flag, If Bec will have same (138) length


Also - I do not use Bec. I'm archer\2H. I'm just think that this weapon deserve some respect

[ArchonAlarion]

Honestly the point of this weapon really was checking/tripping your opponent to the ground or dismounting horseman. Why have it in the game if it cannot perform its function? Should great-swords be throwing weapons (humorous consequences aside)?

I'm not sure about the statistical mechanics of knockdown chance, but it would be nice if you could use secondary mode to trade between pretty high damage and a chance to knockdown with poor damage. That way the bec could alternate between a dueling weapon and a support weapon, or thirdly a very good dueling weapon if you can react and  switch between secondary modes fast enough whilst your opponent is knock-downed. This would add more complexity and tactical potential to the game. Remember that price could be adjusted accordingly.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

I'm not sure about the statistical mechanics of knockdown chance, but it would be nice if you could use secondary mode to trade between pretty high damage and a chance to knockdown with poor damage. That way the bec could alternate between a dueling weapon and a support weapon, or thirdly a very good dueling weapon if you can react and  switch between secondary modes fast enough whilst your opponent is knock-downed. This would add more complexity and tactical potential to the game. Remember that price could be adjusted accordingly.

What you suggest would turn it into a massively overpowered weapon.
First knock your opponent down with high chance, but little damage and while he is on the ground change to the other mode (which takes less than half a second) and spam him to death before he can get up....

[ArchonAlarion]

1. Would it be high chance with mediocre blunt damage and the weight of the bec? I'm not sure how knockdown works exactly.
2. How would this be any better than other knockdown weapons, which don't even have to switch between modes and do their regular damage on the knocking hit?

[Wraist]

The bec and steel pick both have knockdowns, and the war hammer can also do pierce damage. Are you also seriously asking for a buff to the bec?