Anything going to be done about free wpp?

[EyeBeat]

Overall a balanced build is a win-win of course, i switched from 24/15 to 21/18 and not regretting it so far, i felt too slow with 15 agi as  a shielder.

stop wearing so much armor...

I 15 agi all the time and everyone thinks im fast as hell.

[Xant]

Xant

Ujin said 4-5 ps is enough. I asked him about viable build with 12 str and 4 ps. Looks like he cant offer good 30'level build.
You do not have full weapon list with only 12 str. Propose your choice instead.


I remember only one 12str succesfull player. It was RedneckIII, he uses balanced awlpike (september-november 2010 it has worse thrust damage than now) with steel shield and often do fantastical 50-0 scores.

For 4 PS and 2handed, pretty much anything except heavy bastard sword. Studded warclub, Goedendag, mace.. but then I don't know why you'd make a 2h build with 12 str. With 15 strength, pretty much everything becomes viable. Katana, the greatswords, morningstar, barmace etc.

[Zisa]

Old nodachi was 12 str - perfect for ninjas and samurai. If it was not currently gimped (yes GIMPED, like the katana and melee in general) I would be running around 12/30 (or 12/27 if WM was really useful) whittling away at tin cans.

ANYHOW...
Instead of 'free' 130 wpf, bump the wpf gained from WM...
make the points scale towards 'total already spent' not per category, to keep hybrids in check.

[Tears of Destiny]

Technically free wpp (250 or so) in one stat gives 111 wpf, but carry on.

[Fartface]

Agi builds like phase or phyrex need to hit me 4-5 times, while they die in one hit of me.
Step 1: Get 21/18.
Step 2 : Get loomed heavy armor.
Step 3 : Avoid kickslashes.
Step 4 : Wait for them to try to outrange you.
Step 5 : Right swing.
=
PROFIT.

[SixThumbs]

I've had more agility builds then STR or balanced builds so I have to say that AGI isn't really that great above 15 unless you're using massively heavy armor or playing flawlessly that day; getting a damage bonus from speed, hitting the head, and holding an attack for 1.2 seconds or whatever so your character does his little kiai yell. Rain, slopes and interiors of castles (dunno if this was changed) all kind of make athletics moot up to a certain point. It's good for chasing archers and kiting groups of enemies (so they can turn around and flank your team).

The last two gens I haven't used any WM either and by level 30 you have 111 wpf so it is mostly pointless to invest in it from my experience.

[CrazyCracka420]

That's right , just remove the free wpf, cause it's all about what's better for pure archers, who gives a crap about hybrid builds that don't rely solely on spamming agility.
21/18 build here, trust me i won't be able to get 2 proficiencies to a level where i'm as fast a a class that specializes in one . Say what you want , but in my opinion hybrid builds are close to being perfectly balanced right now, your suggestion will ruin this balance and for what ?

I have 1h and polearms spread out between 6 WM.  It's a pretty good balance for a hybrid, but going up against a melee with all their WPF in one skill will still have the advantage over me (if using the same weapon for example).

I think it would make agility more useful if you got slightly more WPP for every WM, not enough to make it so you can get 100'ish for 3 skills though (at 5 or 6 WM, maybe for 7 or 8).

[oohillac]

If the WPF given from no/low WM investment was lower, then it might encourage strength builds to put in more agility. This would lean them towards the balanced builds, which would mean less variety depending on how well the strength build users could do with lower WPF. But if strength-heavy builds (24/15, 27/12, etc) could cope with the lower WPF and related problems (weapon breakage, speed), and keep their high damage output and hitpoints capabilities, then a change to WPF might be okay.

Also, I think the comparison on the previous page against someone with 70 armour was a little off, I don't see too many people wearing 70 armour. 40-50 would be a more accurate number to go by.

Edit add-on:

OP, as for the difference in WPF at higher levels of WM for archers, why not put the extra WPF into a melee weapon instead? I always though anything over 4-5 WM was meant to by a hybrid. The points to fill from 160 to 172 WPF could fill out much more in a melee weapon proficiency. And if you do not want to melee, why not just take lower WM? 

[a_bear_irl]

WPF is almost a non issue, a good player with 0 wpf will beat a bad one with 150 every time. the only time a lack of WPF is noticeable is if you're in a duel with someone who has both WPF and a fast weapon and you're trying to use something slow (eg katana v nodachi)

adjusting free WPF is not the solution. ath, ps and if are so much better than you'd probably have to give 0 "free" to get people to put more than their spare points into it. i think adjusting the wpf "curve" so that there is some real benefit to going above 100 prof is the answer.

[Tomas]

Why not do what SP Warband did?  Add a hard cap to wpf for all categories that can only be increased with WM.

For instance:
0 WM = 60wpf max per category
1 WM = 75wpf max
2 WM = 90wpf max
3 WM = 105wpf max
4 WM = 120wpf max
5 WM = 135wpf max
6 WM = 150wpf
7 WM = 165wpf
8 WM = 180wpf
9 WM = 195wpf
etc

This won't boost the high agility chars becuase they will never actually get enough points to max their wpf due to the scaling (8WM only actually gives 172 wpf, not 180).  Meanwhile it forces Strength builds to at least put 4 points into WM if they want to get to their 111 wpf that they currently get free.

[Dan lol]

Why not do what SP Warband did?  Add a hard cap to wpf for all categories that can only be increased with WM.

For instance:
0 WM = 60wpf max per category
1 WM = 75wpf max
2 WM = 90wpf max
3 WM = 105wpf max
4 WM = 120wpf max
5 WM = 135wpf max
6 WM = 150wpf
7 WM = 165wpf
8 WM = 180wpf
9 WM = 195wpf
etc

This won't boost the high agility chars becuase they will never actually get enough points to max their wpf due to the scaling (8WM only actually gives 172 wpf, not 180).  Meanwhile it forces Strength builds to at least put 4 points into WM if they want to get to their 111 wpf that they currently get free.

That is a pretty rad suggestion, unfortunately lol 27/12 builds everywhere who now have 111 2hand and 95 crossbow prof

WAIT THAT SOUNDS AWESOME BRB STF

[Malaclypse]

bump