Author Topic: Ever used real armor?  (Read 6582 times)

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Offline Elric_de_Melnibone

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2011, 09:54:15 am »
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No, SixThumbs -- if you cannot see the difference between soldiers training skills for combat that will very likely save their lives

You fail to see that our training will actually very likely (and already has, in some cases) save our lives in situations such as mugging, fights on the street, and knife fights.
The techniques that especially my trainer uses can be applied to long weapons, short weapons, and unarmed.

And due the way we do it, which is less honour, restriction and rule-bound, it very much raises our chances of winning a fight than someone who's -never- done anything like this ever in his life. Give me a sword, give me a small stick, heck, even give me a keyring, or only leave me my own body.
I'm incredibly more effective at bringing people down with it if I have to thanks to my training.

And as opposed to most martial arts, the crazyness needed for our sports and especially our groups, it actually reduces the chance of not being able to "do it" if a life-at-risk situation comes up.

(Who doesn't want to read an opinion about soldiers, don't click the spoiler)

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Soldiers should not be overrated, in my personal opinion. Every human is different, and not every soldier will be able to fight for his life as hard as a trained combatant in our group. Of course there are completely hard-ass soldiers that would whoop my ass, but it's not the majority.

The part I like least about soldiers is the indoctrination.
Soldiers follow orders. Soldiers are indoctrinated.

Warriors aren't indoctrinated. Warriors don't follow orders, but do what they feel is right.
I'd rather be a warrior, thank you.

@Everkistus


Ye, Holmgang Hamburg are basicly the complete nutjobs in the scene. They're all nice and fun people to be around.
They're lacking a bit finesse (probably due to their complete ignorance of historical fencing), but they fight very hard.
We train alot with them, but we want to have a bit more finesse in our fighting styles ourselves.

@SgtTeeh
Nowhere did I say that plate armour is impervious to all weapons, but it reduces any damage immensely.

You are right - if you hit an armoured head with a mace strong and often enough, the person will -eventually- be knocked out or killed by blunt trauma.

However, how soon and how fast that happens is completely overestimated by anyone who hasn't actually got a mace bashed into his face yet.

The issue is, for that to happen with a standard-weight infantry mace, with a fully armoured soldier as your opponent, you would basicly have to bring him down on the ground and keep swining at his head when he's lying on his back. If your opponent is up, the chance of blunt trauma, neck damage and killing is reduced very much due to several factors:

1. Your opponent is a trained warrior that knows how to let blows glance off and not take them full force, or well, parry them.
2. Your opponent is moving around and trying to bring YOU down. He's not going to just stand there and take your mace to the face.
3. Thick padding was and is worn under every helmet, and that padding highly reduced damage from blunt instruments.

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Thucydides
Sparring is something we could agree on.

Yes, we do have fight-clups where we go to extreme risks to get a real fight, where we don't hold back one bit and go completely nuts and berserk, sometimes even with sharp weaponry.

But the regular training, the regular fights we do, when we're not doing a fight club or something, yeah, that's sparring.

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Only armor Xant wears is the chastity belt given to him by Siiem.

I got the keys.

Quiet now u bitches. 8-) :D

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Offline Count_Curtis

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2011, 03:52:26 pm »
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Now back to the originally asked question.

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How about bread plate?
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Offline theero

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2011, 09:22:02 pm »
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Tadys note to self: don't tie greaves up too tight. I have bruises in my ankles  :rolleyes: . Also I have a scratch in my finger for bashing it to my brothers bracers. Time to get some gauntlets. :P .
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Offline ArchonAlarion

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2011, 09:35:21 pm »
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I'm a SCAdian, although I've only fought heavy list (adult, rattan weapon combat) in the big battles of Pennsic, so I'm rather noobish. I haven't been able to make local practices in a long time due to school and rides.

My armor is awful munitions plastic barrel and I hate it. My helmet is a big ugly black visored bar-grill and I hate it. I need a decent plate harness, so I can move around comfortably without having to constantly adjust stuff. My shield is a big metal heater, and it is awfully heavy. whah whah   :(

I have a lot of respect for live steel and heavy calibration fighters and hope to able to find the time to try it one day.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 09:37:12 pm by ArchonAlarion »

Offline Thomek

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2011, 01:19:19 am »
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well.. I thought this was mostly what happened.. That the fighters got exhausted and on the ground. (add in long travels to the battlefield) then finished each other off with stuff like this:   (Through openings in the armour)

(click to show/hide)

Or of course the huge hammers and such using the stored energy of a swing from above.. Of course, knights often survived to be captured etc.. I do see the problems getting power in a swing from a 1h blunt weapon when one is exhausted. It is a bit different from crpg and the movies, but I do believe folks would just bang on each others armour for hours.. Falling back and resting etc.

One reason I wanted to lobby for a SLOW but DEADLY deadly dagger type weapon in cRPG..
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 01:23:14 am by Thomek »
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Offline Templar_Ratigan

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2011, 08:37:14 pm »
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No, people just completely overestimate the killing power of maces and blunt weapons in general.
(one handed) blunt weapons were used to demolish your opponents armour so much that he couldn't fight anymore, not to kill.

Of course two-handed hammers and maces had enough power to snap a neck, but if we're talking one handed blunt instruments, nope, maces are not the knight-killers everyone thinks they are. There is a reason for why most fights ended on the ground, with people being stabbed by armour-piercing daggers, after being completely exhausted.

The only real effective knight killers were the crossbow, the military pick, or any hammer with that crow-shaped spike, and heavy flails.

That's interesting, didnt know that.

Of course I assume that the people you fight with arent actually trying to kill you to the fullest extent of their strength?

Also how burly and muscular are the people you fight with?

Although I did read your larger post above this one and can see your reasoning.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 08:38:46 pm by Templar_Ratigan »
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Offline Elric_de_Melnibone

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2011, 01:35:33 pm »
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This was my first time with the Pro's, enjoy me getting beating up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF2yhGQHYy8

And yes, I admit getting beat up in this fight. One of my mistakes was choosing an axe, a weapon that I didn't ever use before at that time.

Improving, training, and having the will to keep going beyond your limits is what's important.

And he wouldn't have such an easy time again if we would fight right now.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 01:36:59 pm by Elric_de_Melnibone »
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Offline Xant

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2011, 01:55:18 pm »
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My favorite part is when everyone rushes in for a group hug at the end. So sweet!
Meaning lies as much
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Offline Paul

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2011, 01:56:31 pm »
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Is there any maximum weight limit for the maces?

Offline Elric_de_Melnibone

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2011, 03:03:51 pm »
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@Xant
Yeah, hugs after hitting each other in the face are always great.

Is there any maximum weight limit for the maces?

No.
Each fight, every combatant decides what he is willing to go up against.
Want to go up against a 5kg two-handed mace? Fine, do it if your opponent agrees.
But don't be crying if you get hurt, as people will tell you how dangerous that is before you fight.

Same with that mace in the video.
It's about 2,5 - 3 kg heavy.
I think. I haven't actually be able to properly get a confirmed weight on it.

But yeah, look at that mace hitting me in the face, and everywhere.
Look how I am not killed or seriously injured, not even knocked down.

And at that time, I knew what I wanted, but I seriously lacked a good trainer (and good training overall), which I found shortly after the event. I didn't know what buttstrike, checkhand, and a proper guard was at that time. Basicly, I had the will and motivation, but nothing else. And still... yeah - I'm alive. Duh. Not seriously injured.

Need any more proof?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 03:07:04 pm by Elric_de_Melnibone »
- What can change the nature of a man?

Offline Xant

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2011, 03:15:51 pm »
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Well, it only really proves that the guy in the video didn't seriously injure or kill you with hits from a mace with his power and technique.
Meaning lies as much
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Offline Elric_de_Melnibone

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2011, 03:20:07 pm »
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Well, it only really proves that the guy in the video didn't seriously injure or kill you with hits from a mace with his power and technique.

Of course you could do it so much better, I forgot.


 :lol:

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Offline Christo

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2011, 03:36:11 pm »
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:D First I thought you're the guy with a mace.

You've got a bascinet like that? Epicness.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2011, 03:42:50 pm »
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Of course you could do it so much better, I forgot.


 :lol:

Naturally, but it'd be unfair to expect anyone to perform as well as me. That's not the point though, the point is that you can hardly call the video proof of anything because there are so many unknown factors.
Meaning lies as much
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Offline Elric_de_Melnibone

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Re: Ever used real armor?
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2011, 03:46:21 pm »
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Naturally, but it'd be unfair to expect anyone to perform as well as me. That's not the point though, the point is that you can hardly call the video proof of anything because there are so many unknown factors.

But I can call a ridiculous troll and stop replying to you at all.  :|

@Christo

I -had- a bascinet like that.

Use a different one now. A better one. Better smith, quality and fit and all.

Here are some more impressions of our fights, later this year, with alot more training:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9_FQ5CZoJg

Fights start at 07:56
- What can change the nature of a man?