On Crushtrhough, A long examination using Melee Dynamics

[DarkFox]

Yes, chambering a maul is a lot harder than chambering a fast sword.

Then there is something wrong with me.For me its easier to chamber slow weapon.

[Casimir]

Anyone that says you cant block a crushthrough is a.) too weak or b.) is using too light a weapon.

Man up and get some STENGTH!!!!


Lets hope great maul / long maul dont get nerfed or the skilled 1hrs will have it way to easy.

[Momo]

YES! Nerf the only thing that can counter the one handers. We just get more one hander (and more thrower) after the crushtrough is removed. They have strong shields and can onehit people -.-. Make crushtrough weapons slower instead of removing the crushtrough...

Edit: And bar mace and long iron mace is short..
Edit:Another idea, give back crushtrough on the 3rd heirloom..that would be fair, you have to work a lot for it.

[DarkFox]

YES! Nerf the only thing that can counter the one handers. We just get more one hander (and more thrower) after the crushtrough is removed. They have strong shields and can onehit people -.-. Make crushtrough weapons slower instead of removing the crushtrough...

Edit: And bar mace and long iron mace is short..

Honestly,everything can counter 1h.I never felt like hammers and axes are "weapon against shielder",its just heavy cheap weapon with high damage.

[Momo]

Honestly,everything can counter 1h.I never felt like hammers and axes are "weapon against shielder",its just heavy cheap weapon with high damage.

Tell me, how can you counter an 1h with pick (which is the most distracting weapon) without any bonus? Try a weapon without bonus, most 1 handers rape you, and thx by the 1h speed buff they spam like crazy. But I think balance is fine now, every class can be annoying.

Edit: I never had problems with the crushtrough guys so I really don't understand why people crying about them. Their short range is really a big disadvantage. It's harder to fight with a short weapon, if you don't belive try it out.

[Garrus]

Very good post with only a very few not-so-important mistake.
In my opinon, crushthrough weapons shoud be support weapons, you could
suddenly,rarely strike down to shielders, so I would implement some kind of stun
after you launched a strike with your barmace. So just deny attacking (and maybe blocking) for like 2 sec after attack.

[Memento_Mori]

.

Tell me, how can you counter an 1h with pick (which is the most distracting weapon) without any bonus? Try a weapon without bonus, most 1 handers rape you, and thx by the 1h speed buff they spam like crazy. But I think balance is fine now, every class can be annoying.

Edit: I never had problems with the crushtrough guys so I really don't understand why people crying about them. Their short range is really a big disadvantage. It's harder to fight with a short weapon, if you don't belive try it out.

"1h speed buff they spam like crazy"
see right here, now I see your problem, you haven't played the game long enough.
To beat SPAM, you have to BLOCK, the only way to die to SPAM is not to BLOCK or COUNTER ATTACK and to literally let yourself be swung at over and over and over until you're dead.
Of course in CRPG there are many other variables to take into account (level of your toon vs opponents) but thats the basics of it, if you are not going to block or try and attack back why would they stop cutting you up? It's not spam if you can block.

@Momo, buy a BIG AXE & learn to block. there is your counter.
the only problem with crushthrough is the damn Barmace and Long Iron Mace, they are almost as fast as swords, almost as long as swords, can knockdown, can crushthrough & do a crap load more damage. WHY WOULD ANYONE CHOOSE ANYTHING ELSE? even just carry a bar mace in your back pocket and put away your HUGE LOLSWORD and pull out your BARMACE to destroy shielders, tin cans, & everyone.



Swords I'm comparing to are the bastard sword & the long sword.

[Xant]

Almost as fast as swords? They ARE as fast as the greatswords.

[Memento_Mori]

Almost as fast as swords? They ARE as fast as the greatswords.

I was speaking of swords of similar length to the bar mace/long iron mace, but yes they are.

[Grey]

Basically The game’s melee mechanics work very much in a turn base way:

No. You need to visualise each player has their own turn time: Char build + weapon speed = how often he can attack.

Many times I have beaten slower opponents by simply trading blows, block to block, my "turn time" being slightly faster, and over the course of 3 or 4 attacks, my slight speed advantage has got me enough time so I am so far ahead in my turn, I can attack, hit his block, then attack again before oponent can counterattack. With crush weapons the only way to defend yourself is constant attack, but since they are so limited I see this as another whine thread....

[Momo]

.
"1h speed buff they spam like crazy"
see right here, now I see your problem, you haven't played the game long enough.
To beat SPAM, you have to BLOCK, the only way to die to SPAM is not to BLOCK or COUNTER ATTACK and to literally let yourself be swung at over and over and over until you're dead.
Of course in CRPG there are many other variables to take into account (level of your toon vs opponents) but thats the basics of it, if you are not going to block or try and attack back why would they stop cutting you up? It's not spam if you can block.

@Momo, buy a BIG AXE & learn to block. there is your counter.
the only problem with crushthrough is the damn Barmace and Long Iron Mace, they are almost as fast as swords, almost as long as swords, can knockdown, can crushthrough & do a crap load more damage. WHY WOULD ANYONE CHOOSE ANYTHING ELSE? even just carry a bar mace in your back pocket and put away your HUGE LOLSWORD and pull out your BARMACE to destroy shielders, tin cans, & everyone.



Swords I'm comparing to are the bastard sword & the long sword.

I played this enough so I now how it works and I can block that's not the problem. Im just pissed that I already release a fking swing and the 1hander releases his swing later but Im the one who takes a hit, and he spams me and I can't counter attack because of his STUN between the swings. And bar mace is slow and short, long iron mace is short, they don't have a lolstab and they are not HUGE. Crap load more damage? Don't make me laugh, have you ever seen the long iron mace? 33 blunt... it's not that big. I see your problem, wanna know what is that? Blunt dmg ignores more armor than cut that's why it hurts, and most of the people changed to blunt because 2h swords got nerfed like hell. Everything will be nerfed because someone always find something OP (weight nerf, archer nerf, now upkeep,2h nerf). And what a pity I already invested a lot of time into my heirloomed mace, and all of my work gonna be nothing because one idiot thinks that crushtrough is OP and remove crushtrough from maces -.-. Personally I never had problems with these crushtrough guys, they have disadvantages if you can't avoid them that's your problem.  Shielders are already too strong, we need tincan plate crushtrough guys to counter them. And FOOTWORK is important too, not just BLOCKING. Look at a LULSWORD guy, he can have a lot of agi with enough PS while the crushtrough guy needs more str, so he is slower.

[Gorath]

Im just pissed that I already release a fking swing and the 1hander releases his swing later but Im the one who takes a hit, and he spams me and I can't counter attack because of his STUN between the swings.

That's funny, this happens far more from 2hers due to exceedingly superior animations in my experience.  Drop the shield to counterattack and the 2her launches an attack halfway through my 1her's swing and connects first.

Shielders are already too strong,

lol
The ONLY shielders that are a scary threat are balb and manofwar.  There's other good ones out there, but a mediocre 2her/polearm user is far more dangerous than a good shielder on average.

we need tincan plate crushtrough guys to counter them.

There's no reason we ever NEED tincan plate crutch-through guys.  Ever.

And btw, I play a 2her/polearm user 90% of the time anymore as shielders are weak in comparison.  Possibly the best sign that crush through is a stupid mechanic in general:  You say it's anti-shield yet it crushes through both my manual blocks AND my chamber blocks.  The sheer fact that it crushes through chamber blocks is the single most retarded part of crutch-through mechanics.

[Xant]

The ONLY shielders that are a scary threat are balb and manofwar.  There's other good ones out there, but a mediocre 2her/polearm user is far more dangerous than a good shielder on average.T

..What? How is someone who dies in 1-2 hits more dangerous than a good shielder?

[Gorath]

..What? How is someone who dies in 1-2 hits more dangerous than a good shielder?

They're faster, have longer range and deal far more damage.

[Kafein]

And what a pity I already invested a lot of time into my heirloomed mace, and all of my work gonna be nothing because one idiot thinks that crushtrough is OP and remove crushtrough from maces -.-.

Fact : you spent time to heirloom a mace. You are yourself admitting they are OP.