Poll

Possible rule change: What should count as one ranged slot on the question with Throwing?

One stack of throwing weapons
67 (40.1%)
Two stacks of throwing weapons
21 (12.6%)
One person using throwing weapons
63 (37.7%)
Undecided
16 (9.6%)

Total Members Voted: 167

Author Topic: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER  (Read 30593 times)

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Offline okiN

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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #210 on: December 18, 2011, 02:13:46 am »
+1
@Okin. Actually the burden of proof is on your side as it is you who wants to change the rules. What ever way you turn it, more people actually voted for the original suggestion, and even more did not care. Hence in order to achieve a greater number with your proposal (which should be expected at least) you would need more votes that the rules already applied.
Some may even argue that in order to change an established rule you might need 2/3 of the votes, but you did not get 50% even when disregarding other votes.

Edit: But you could however argue for a second voting round where only the two most voted for result were available and then try to garner more votes from either undecided or 2 stacks. Odds are that 2 stacks might move to your position and that more undecideds might move as well, seeing that few throwing weapons were used in the actual tournament.

There's no point in dragging it out further, Ramses has obviously made up his mind and it won't have any impact on the tournament at this stage. I'm much more interested in hearing him say something about the "mercs".

However, since you brought it up again, I think you're looking at this wrong. The "Undecided" option basically means "I don't care either way, I just want to see the poll result." It's not fair to count them as votes in favor of the status quo, that's completely misleading to the voters. If there's no genuine way to vote without voting, then there shouldn't be a "neutral" option in the first place. This isn't like a parliamentary session where there's a preset number of voters, so the bit about "abstaining" votes counting into the total you have to beat is silly. So I disagree with Ramses there.

You, however, seem to be saying that a single "change" option should actually outnumber the "no change" option? That's even more unreasonable, just imagine a case of 50 for no change and 45 for each of the potential changes. Are you seriously saying that should count as a majority in favor of keeping the current rule? If so, then the whole vote is rigged to fail by virtue of having two separate options for changes in the first place.

If you want to set some arbitrary ratio target, then whatever, but by my count the vote is 63 in favor of changing, 60 in favor of keeping it like it is. And with that I'm done discussing the matter. :lol:
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 02:15:03 am by okiN »
Don't.

Offline Old Autobus

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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #211 on: December 18, 2011, 02:32:33 am »
0
There's no point in dragging it out further, Ramses has obviously made up his mind and it won't have any impact on the tournament at this stage. I'm much more interested in hearing him say something about the "mercs".

However, since you brought it up again, I think you're looking at this wrong. The "Undecided" option basically means "I don't care either way, I just want to see the poll result." It's not fair to count them as votes in favor of the status quo, that's completely misleading to the voters. If there's no genuine way to vote without voting, then there shouldn't be a "neutral" option in the first place. This isn't like a parliamentary session where there's a preset number of voters, so the bit about "abstaining" votes counting into the total you have to beat is silly. So I disagree with Ramses there.

You, however, seem to be saying that a single "change" option should actually outnumber the "no change" option? That's even more unreasonable, just imagine a case of 50 for no change and 45 for each of the potential changes. Are you seriously saying that should count as a majority in favor of keeping the current rule? If so, then the whole vote is rigged to fail by virtue of having two separate options for changes in the first place.

If you want to set some arbitrary ratio target, then whatever, but by my count the vote is 63 in favor of changing, 60 in favor of keeping it like it is. And with that I'm done discussing the matter. :lol:

no.

Offline polkafranzi

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Offline Franke

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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #213 on: December 18, 2011, 04:15:40 am »
0
no u.

What is this??? Where'S your avatar gone? You know, the one inspiring imagination... :evil:
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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #214 on: December 18, 2011, 09:16:54 am »
0
(click to show/hide)

a hahahaha, hahaha, a hahaha, omfg i pissed my self, srsly...
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Offline Teeth

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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #215 on: December 18, 2011, 12:43:25 pm »
0
Any videos shot?

Offline MrExxc

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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #216 on: December 18, 2011, 01:19:01 pm »
0
Any videos shot?

Dace frapsed some I believe.

Nice screens Cooties, love them! Get a banner pack bro.

Offline Nessaj

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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #217 on: December 18, 2011, 01:58:34 pm »
0
Dace frapsed some I believe.

Nice screens Cooties, love them! Get a banner pack bro.

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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #218 on: December 18, 2011, 02:00:52 pm »
0
No gallery without hugs:
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LeoKing pimpin' like a boss
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Offline RamsesXXIIX

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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #219 on: December 18, 2011, 03:31:15 pm »
0
Announcement!

I am truly sorry, but rl circumstances prevent me from showing up and be leading the tournament finals myself.

However, Thovex has graciously stepped up and accepted to be the tournament master for this final. He will be doing all the stuff I did yesterday (calling fights, counting points etc.) and he will also be the final judge to give penalty points if necessary.

I hope that despite all the confusion there's been (Strategus, server troubles and now this) you guys have had a fun and encouraging experience. I hope the next tournament I organize will be with less confusion.

So, be good to Thovex, and may the best team win!

Offline Torben

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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #220 on: December 18, 2011, 03:35:49 pm »
0
Ramses,  I am very greatefull for you organizing this shit,  i had a blast.
Yes, I know from whence I came! Discontented as a flame, Upon myself I live and glow. All I grasp like lightning flashes, All I leave behind is ashes
Flame I am - that much I know!

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Offline okiN

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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #221 on: December 18, 2011, 03:40:44 pm »
+3
Still no word on the issue of out-of-clan players.

Seriously, should we be looking into outsourcing a couple of slots from our team to visiting stars if some of our top players can't make it? :|

Anyway, thanks a lot for the organization Ramses!

Edit: I'd just like to point out there was no mention of crap like that in the rules, only this:

6 - If under any circumstances your clan fights with lower amount of people, your missing teammates are considered as killed (other team will get points just like for killing them).

To my mind, this rule was totally broken yesterday. Only Gardarika followed it, even though they weren't the only clan not fielding a full squad.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 03:44:18 pm by okiN »
Don't.

Offline Osiris

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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #222 on: December 18, 2011, 04:13:00 pm »
0
I was fighting with Ru Conquista because they were one player short <---- thats bs. They had 1 Drz tagged guy and a couple of pillagers. They had 50% of their side as mercs. who cares if they are all RL friends? if they want to fight together so much they should make a side clan and add tags to their chars
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Offline zottlmarsch

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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #223 on: December 18, 2011, 04:23:49 pm »
+1
What if Merc's were allowed, but their team would get penalised 1 point per merc, per battle that they fought in?

for example if you used 2 mercs in 1 battle you would be deducted 2 points from that battle?

Sounds Fair?
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Offline Old Autobus

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Re: ALL CRPG FALLEN CHRISTMAS TOURNAMENT - 17 and 18 DECEMBER
« Reply #224 on: December 18, 2011, 04:50:31 pm »
0
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We would play together anyways, it doesn't matter if we have a tag or not.
Stop whining fellas, that wont bring you to the finals.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 04:51:46 pm by Autobus »