Calvary needs a buff.

[Soldier_of_God]

BEFORE YOU COMMENT, DO TWO THINGS... READ THE WHOLE THREAD FIRST, AND WHEN YOU POST, MENTION YOUR CURRENT MOUNT(S) OWNED, AND YOUR MAIN CHARACTER BUILD TYPE. THANK YOU.

Crpg is very much about breaking the monotony of the original MB:W by adding diversity, tactics, personalization, and role-playing elements not originally in the game, and for that reason, 250+ people play semi-regularly. part of these tactics is simple...

Polearms>Horse>1h>Bow>Throw>2H>Polearms  (>) = greater than for those who have never done 3rd grade math.
thats how it SHOULD work 2/3rds of the time.

however, Horses are now inferior to everything.

a destrier now costs 26447 gold, which makes for 1322 in repair costs... each time it gets broken... which is often.
this is virtually unarmored, low tier horse.

my palfrey, which it 10000 or so, can withstand...

1 arrow and bolt to face, or one good 2h swing or polearm stab to face.
2 axes, javelins or arrows to the body.
3 1h hits, or stabs with spear.

i don't mind those statistics at all for realism. but as it is, it really isn't even worth getting a horse. why don't i buy a warhorse?

i'm low tier cash flow (30k average), and horses are beyond fragile. only a small amount of players are 45k+... which still is not alot to own a horse and maintain it.

How much Gold do you have?
0-50k
117 (43.8%) - majority
50-100k 
49 (18.4%) - half of these are about 60k probably. with this, you can probably get a warhorse, which will be difficult to maintain
100-200k
43 (16.1%) - this is about reasonable for a horseman. to bad most (27.7) dont use horses. that leave over 70% that cant actively use a horse.
200-300k
23 (8.6%)
300-400k
8 (3%)
400-500k
3 (1.1%)
500k+
24 (9%)

here is what i suggest

a.) prices from palfrey to plated charger are reduced by 40%

b.) horse prices are reduced by 25%, given +30 health and +15 armor, +2 riding requirement

c.) make horses unbreakable, and give them +30 health and +15 armor.

d.) insert a better suggestion here!

here are the advantages of each suggestion.

a.) more people can afford horses, bringing back the horse and rider, and restoring balance to the game. it make people work harder as a team, and helps get rid of throwers, or bring them to the forefront to face the horseman along with the polearm.

b.) brings prices to a reasonable amount, as well as making horses more sturdy, thus making them a viable weapon of war, but by restricting access of the really good horses to the rider elite

c.) this makes money the biggest initial factor in acquiring a horse but also makes it an investment for the buyer that can pay off well if used right.

d.) we can discuss possible ways to bring back the horse and rider playing style thus giving a much needed liberty to all of the knights of the realm...

My suggestions might be biased or horrible. but one thing i know is that horses need to change. this game is called mount&blade for a reason: its meant to simulate mounted combat! and it does a pretty darn good job of it too. too bad noone but the shadowy elite can afford it.

[justme]

my palfrey, which it 10000 or so, can withstand...

1 arrow and bolt to face, or one good 2h swing or polearm stab to face.

and i cant...

[Soldier_of_God]

you also are not

a.) an animal (maybe at parties)

b.) a gameplay device.

c.) a costly piece of equipment to maintain.

edit: thanks for not even reading the first sentence through on my well prepared, long written message meant to balance the game. you are a really thoughtful person.

[Ganon]

If you want to buff cavalry, lances should only be able to hit in a small angle in front of them.

[Stormcrow]

I agree that horses are incredibly overpriced and agree that they should be reduced 40-50% of what they are now. They should still require some upkeep but it should be reduced slightly.

I want to try cav but right now its a joke. one throwing kills just about any horse instantly. Maybe horse armour and hit points should increase with riding skill or player lvl, that would atleast make it interesting

[Diomedes]

I agree with your sentiment but because I'm not a stat-guy I can't yet agree to your suggestions.  I play a 1h+shield and this generation I tried getting some horse points to try riding out.  Very cool!  Very fun!  Very expensive!  Just like with any gear, my priciest horse can only be used sometimes but to [sometimes] great effect.  I have no issue with this, but I do take issue with my cheaper rouncey being so extraordinarily fragile yet still quite expensive.  The power of such non-armoured horses relies on their speed for both damage and tactics.  Once the horse dies, horsemen are often left with a big lance, lots of leg armour, and a really long stun period where anybody and their uncle can score some hits.  If horsemen are to be properly viable they need to be either a) more useful b) less dangerous for the rider or c) cheaper.  Though of course some horsemen are extraordinarily skillful and can really wreak havoc on many maps, it remains an extremophile build for many players.  Even on my best warhorse, I still carry a good combat shield and 1h with me so I won't be at a complete loss if/when my horse dies.  The issue with this is, though, that I'm then paying for 1) a very expensive horse 2) particular horseman's gear 3) a regular weapon set.  Something ain't right here 

>> but so what if it's an extreme class, that just means it's unique!

 So is a naked knifemen, but build extremity assumes certain exceptional yet accessible quality.  The horse has speed, yes, but also loads of drawbacks.

>> but horses are balanced now!  Look how few there are!

I do indeed like the infantry focus but remember the title.  In my ideal world every open map fields some bowmen, swordsmen, polemen, and cavalry.  Right now many cavalry players remain a luxery of 3-0 teams.

[Soldier_of_God]

im glad im not the only one that sees descrepancies with the current system! 

[Meow]

only a small amount of players are 45k+...

fail
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2042.0.html

this makes you just another whiner.

[Soldier_of_God]

oh sorry... 50+

and most people in those options are at the LOWER portion past 50 k i will bet you. and i also had said that would still not be alot. to get a good horse like a destrier, you need to at least have 60 k to mantain it if you wanted to use it regularly. thats not considering you will still get shot down in 2-3 arrows anyway.

oh and btw, what is your main class, and does it have a horse? as an additional though, how much do YOU make? can you afford a horse? i've never seen you or heard of you before.

as a note, about 73% of players cannot constantly use a horse because of cost.

[EponiCo]

I have 4 horses. I don't think they need a buff. On average I get 2 or 3 kills from horseback per round + injuring and distracting many people. Courser and below is sort of maintainable with shitty melee gear (f.e. 1.5k for simple sword), it's just for style and having a backup when dismounted, but you can still make kills with it.
Imo some internal balance is required, courser vs destrier f.e. but no global buff.

[Wulzzz]

I want a lightning shooting bow which does AOE instant kill everyone in a radius of at least 200 metres.This would be the lowest acceptable.


The times of full plate on plated charger are thankfully over.
I'd suggest u use the destrier which is a pretty horse and then not so ultra armor.And rethink your fight tactics which i hope go beyond:
" ME LONG WOOD PIECE WITH SHARP STONE AT PEAK.ME COME RIDE TO YOU ON BIG ANIMAL FAST."

Also hierlooming horses for 1 time gives not bad defens/hp buff.

[Gorath]

I have 4 horses. I don't think they need a buff. On average I get 2 or 3 kills from horseback per round + injuring and distracting many people. Courser and below is sort of maintainable with shitty melee gear (f.e. 1.5k for simple sword), it's just for style and having a backup when dismounted, but you can still make kills with it.
Imo some internal balance is required, courser vs destrier f.e. but no global buff.

I agree with this post the most out of the ones in this thread.  Some internal re-balancing would be beneficial but overall cav do not need a buff.  One of the most gamechanging things on a team is pair of well played cav, light or heavy.

On my cav I own a rouncey, palfrey, sarranid and destrier and find all of them fairly easy to upkeep given mail over tunic, splinted greaves, wisby guantlets, klappvisor, heater shield, long arming sword, and light lance.  Armored horses are insane and deserve their insane upkeep cost.  Unarmored horses are and should be the norm.

As for your suggestions:

here are the advantages of each suggestion.

a.) more people can afford horses, bringing back the horse and rider, and restoring balance to the game. it make people work harder as a team, and helps get rid of throwers, or bring them to the forefront to face the horseman along with the polearm. 

I think this is a bad thing.  Too many cav, like archers, like throwers, makes the game crappy.  Imo, but probably the majority too.  A few decent ones per team makes the game fun, but not very many or it just gets lame.  Most everyone can afford a horse now as is, as long as they don't plan to ride around on the M&B version of a panzer tank IE: armored horses.

b.) brings prices to a reasonable amount, as well as making horses more sturdy, thus making them a viable weapon of war, but by restricting access of the really good horses to the rider elite

Making horses more sturdy simply rewards bad cav.  Oh, I can be stupid cause my horse is really buff.  This is a disadvantage to your suggestion imo.  The rider elite should consist of good players, not crutching scrubtards (Finished for example) who ride around on tanks and can afford their stupidity due to strong horses.

c.) this makes money the biggest initial factor in acquiring a horse but also makes it an investment for the buyer that can pay off well if used right.

Current upkeep system is fair.  Unless you want to make everything unbreakable (my x-bows, weapons, and armor) in order to keep things fair then no.  This is basically going back to the previous system before upkeep and unfairly punishes all NON-cav players.  In essence it becomes a free uber-advantage so that everyone would be stupid for not riding. Initial cost means nothing as that's just a matter of time, which is endless.  Again, the buff is not needed to horse stats either.

[Soldier_of_God]

I appreciate Intelligent answers quite a bit, and so i thank you, Gorath, as well as EponiCo for actually attempting to do more than just bash the ideas.

but there is one problem with both of your statements...

neither of you own anything warhorse and above. if thats by choice, more power to you. but the whole purpose of my suggestions is to at least make middle high warhorses affordable; that and they take at least 5 riding to ride.

I will back my first suggestion, A, to reduce the price of horses. please note, however, these are merely suggestions and are no way set in stone...

Option D is good if you have an idea to return horses to the battlefield again.

i believe there should at least be 10 horsemen for every 50, and 15 for every 100, on average. by reducing the price of the warhorse to an affordable 20438 (45% reduction), this would make higher tier horses easier to obtain, but still not easy fiscally. the warhorse is still the lowest armored horse in the selection, and most people are not willing to pay 20k and have 5 riding for a horse unless they ARE SOMEWHAT CALVARY CENTERED, which is what i think would work; appealing to the Knights and Calvaliers to charge again.

[Gorath]

neither of you own anything warhorse and above. if thats by choice, more power to you. but the whole purpose of my suggestions is to at least make middle high warhorses affordable; that and they take at least 5 riding to ride.

It is by choice, at least for me.  Armored horses are nigh broken, allowing people to play incredibly stupid and get away.  I've seen people charge pikers simply to get a single kill via lance, take 4 stabs and then ride away.  Some players made a name for themselves by being terribad, but using the power of armored horses to crutch kills.  Even in native they're redonkulous.  Tanks, which is really what they are, should be rare and shouldn't be affordable.  They should be something you pull out as a risk in order to either secure a multiplier, or retain it imo.  Hell I had a cataphract at one point and could pretty much ride around with impunity knowing that my horse was about as tough to kill as Goretooth.

[Falka]

Courser 19,818 gold
Lance 3,374 gold
Horseman's Kite Shield 1,978 gold
Cavalry Robe 3,582 gold
In total: ~29 000 gold. Yep, gear for the horseman is so f*** expensive. Average equipment for 2hander costs more or less the same. And take a look at Ujin, Simon Templar, TomMyyY, they don't need tanks and black armour to have KD ratio ~10:1.