[POLL] About EU_1 Battle.Why its no fun anymore ? Or is it fun ?

[Leshma]

That's fucking bullshit. Archers are one of the weakest classes and without the roof camp thingy they will be fucked even more. And I still hope chadz will agree to ladder removal for battle at some point.

Why don't you give them back melee abilities but in return nerf ranged damage a little bit. Cap number of quivers by 2 but make them take just one slot. Make bastard swords one slot. Give them more wpp so they can put at least 100 in melee proficiency. But don't forget to nerf ranged damage. Allow hybrid archers again, they are immensely more fun to play than this cowardly pure bullshit of an archer.

Good players are complete players and they will do good with such hybrid builds. Bad will still have crappy k/d because they are unexperienced.

And about you being worse archer than anything else: you live in Germany and have really good ping which grants you certain advantages in melee combat. You might have good response and fast reflexes which is very important on duel server but in battle experience is far more important and essential for archery. Maybe you're lacking battle experience, there are many archers who do very well but they aren't really good duelers, they just know how to play battle.

Also,

archer nerfs:

PD wpf reduction

Melee fighters need armor to be super effective but if they choose to wear it they lose wpf, archers don't need armor as much so there must be some way for them to lose wpf if they want to be super effective. In other words it's not a nerf, it's a very good decision made by balancing crew.

ammo nerf

It's a good thing. Before, when archers had 50 arrows to shoot, not a single archer cared about precision and aiming. They just spammed arrows like mad.

-
-damage nerf,
-shot speed nerf,
-jump shot removal,
-armor restriction,
-melee weapon restiction (slot system),etc.

- damage was lulz in december 2010.
- shot speed LOLOL, in dec. 2010. bows were more like miniguns
- jumpshot is stupid and was abused too much, just like hiltslash is now abused
- dude, if archers were able to wear heavy armor without restrictions everyone would choose to play an archer, all others classes would be pointless, native is dead because of this
- slot system is bullshit, i agree

As an individual in cRPG it usually sucks to be an archer.

Yet, many choose to play the class. I would play it myself if you would allow hybrids again because that hammer is kinda silly weapon although I'm able to kill many noobs with it

[Corrado_Decimo]

That's fucking bullshit. Archers are one of the weakest classes and without the roof camp thingy they will be fucked even more. And I still hope chadz will agree to ladder removal for battle at some point.
There had been a long history of archer nerfs and while I keep them in mind most people do forget them. PD wpf reduction, ammo nerf, damage nerf(in the beginning every bow/arrow was pierce), shot speed nerf, jump shot removal, armor restriction, melee weapon restiction (slot system), a lot slower than Native animations, etc.
As an individual in cRPG it usually sucks to be an archer. However for Strategus archers rule. That caused the increased amount of archer (mains) for me. People get shot more often and then rage about it.


Also you said that you have 2 IF before.

i had a level 39 archer back in the 230wpf 7PD spawn-to-spawn headshots+bec de corbin melee backup weapon era. back then, someone with a good aim and same good melee skills, could take out EASLY 10 enemies per round. pululu (sawa) anyone?

so talking about how retarded archer in native is and using that to say "archers got a lot of nerfs!" is not really objective.

2h got grounded a lot (morningstar crushthru removed, barmace crushthru removed, greatswords thrust nerf, weapon speed nerf every patch, armor nerf, no more agi adding 0.5% weapon speed)

if we should compare it to native too (as you did) is really gimped down to hell.

so...

also a lot of ranged start by playing 2h. they can't block shit for 1 week and instead keep training, just roll archer roofcamping mode (as they pretty much suck at melee. so 0 slot hammer to use for manual blocking is a no go.)

still good archers dominate strat and battles. and even in siege, concentrated fire really turn the round tides.

people keep adapting, so taking out discussing about the really old balance fixes, is meh.

[Paul]

Instead of damage or precision nerfs(latter is the death of skillbased archery) I would do this 3 point plan:

1) Get 'em off the roofs!
Simply remove ladders from battles. Ranged will be forced to fight from reachable places, making them much more vulnerable to cav(in the open) or sneaky inf (with buildings) attacks. Archers would probably suffer more from that because crossbowmen usually got an excellent awareness thanks to the reloading break. This would probalby encourage teamplay. chadz is against ladder removal as it is now though.

2) Don't let 'em get away!
Lower the ability to sprint for players with bows or xbows in the inventory. This will make turn&run less effective because for example a shielder could catch up while at the moment he is usually outpaced. Encourages teamplay together with inf.

3) Make 'em real men!
No melee weapon builds and equipment layouts of course lead to turn&run tactics. I would make it so that there is no real reason not to bring a sidearm for an archer. For that I would lower the maximum amount of ammo stacks to 2, probably only allow them in the 3rd and 4th equipment slot. With that archers should bring a melee weapon and maybe even make them stand and fight instead of running. Encourages teamplay even more because even if the archer can't kill the meleegay he can at least keep him busy with blocking until help arrives.

[Corrado_Decimo]

Instead of damage or precision nerfs(latter is the death of skillbased archery) I would do this 3 point plan:

1) Get 'em off the roofs!
Simply remove ladders from battles. Ranged will be forced to fight from reachable places, making them much more vulnerable to cav(in the open) or sneaky inf (with buildings) attacks. Archers would probably suffer more from that because crossbowmen usually got an excellent awareness thanks to the reloading break. This would probalby encourage teamplay. chadz is against ladder removal as it is now though.

2) Don't let 'em get away!
Lower the ability to sprint for players with bows or xbows in the inventory. This will make turn&run less effective because for example a shielder could catch up while at the moment he is usually outpaced. Encourages teamplay together with inf.

3) Make 'em real men!
No melee weapon builds and equipment layouts of course lead to turn&run tactics. I would make it so that there is no real reason not to bring a sidearm for an archer. For that I would lower the maximum amount of ammo stacks to 2, probably only allow them in the 3rd and 4th equipment slot. With that archers should bring a melee weapon and maybe even make them stand and fight instead of running. Encourages teamplay even more because even if the archer can't kill the meleegay he can at least keep him busy with blocking until help arrives.

exactly. specially the last point as is the most annoying thing happening to this mod from a while.

[Gnjus]

3) Make 'em real men!

This would require too many real-life spine-implantation surgeries and your donations can't cover it.

[Prpavi]

That's fucking bullshit. Archers are one of the weakest classes and without the roof camp thingy they will be fucked even more. And I still hope chadz will agree to ladder removal for battle at some point.
There had been a long history of archer nerfs and while I keep them in mind most people do forget them. PD wpf reduction, ammo nerf, damage nerf(in the beginning every bow/arrow was pierce), shot speed nerf, jump shot removal, armor restriction, melee weapon restiction (slot system), a lot slower than Native animations, etc.
As an individual in cRPG it usually sucks to be an archer. However for Strategus archers rule. That caused the increased amount of archer (mains) for me. People get shot more often and then rage about it.


Also you said that you have 2 IF before.

thx for the Hard Lolz in the morning.

[Vibe]

Instead of damage or precision nerfs(latter is the death of skillbased archery) I would do this 3 point plan:

1) Get 'em off the roofs!
Simply remove ladders from battles. Ranged will be forced to fight from reachable places, making them much more vulnerable to cav(in the open) or sneaky inf (with buildings) attacks. Archers would probably suffer more from that because crossbowmen usually got an excellent awareness thanks to the reloading break. This would probalby encourage teamplay. chadz is against ladder removal as it is now though.

2) Don't let 'em get away!
Lower the ability to sprint for players with bows or xbows in the inventory. This will make turn&run less effective because for example a shielder could catch up while at the moment he is usually outpaced. Encourages teamplay together with inf.

3) Make 'em real men!
No melee weapon builds and equipment layouts of course lead to turn&run tactics. I would make it so that there is no real reason not to bring a sidearm for an archer. For that I would lower the maximum amount of ammo stacks to 2, probably only allow them in the 3rd and 4th equipment slot. With that archers should bring a melee weapon and maybe even make them stand and fight instead of running. Encourages teamplay even more because even if the archer can't kill the meleegay he can at least keep him busy with blocking until help arrives.

Nice, I believe this would make battle server a bit more... bearable

[Templar_Ratigan]

Eu 1 is terrible for very simple reasons.

Firstly it skips horribly.

Secondly it has way too many people.

and thirdly the teambalance is obviously atrocious.

But I doubt anything can be done about that.

[karasu]

Instead of damage or precision nerfs(latter is the death of skillbased archery) I would do this 3 point plan:

1) Get 'em off the roofs!
Simply remove ladders from battles. Ranged will be forced to fight from reachable places, making them much more vulnerable to cav(in the open) or sneaky inf (with buildings) attacks. Archers would probably suffer more from that because crossbowmen usually got an excellent awareness thanks to the reloading break. This would probalby encourage teamplay. chadz is against ladder removal as it is now though.

2) Don't let 'em get away!
Lower the ability to sprint for players with bows or xbows in the inventory. This will make turn&run less effective because for example a shielder could catch up while at the moment he is usually outpaced. Encourages teamplay together with inf.

3) Make 'em real men!
No melee weapon builds and equipment layouts of course lead to turn&run tactics. I would make it so that there is no real reason not to bring a sidearm for an archer. For that I would lower the maximum amount of ammo stacks to 2, probably only allow them in the 3rd and 4th equipment slot. With that archers should bring a melee weapon and maybe even make them stand and fight instead of running. Encourages teamplay even more because even if the archer can't kill the meleegay he can at least keep him busy with blocking until help arrives.

Totally agree with 3) but the other two you simply can't have both at the same time. Taking this into account would make sense, not to even gimp the archer more (surviv-wise) but fix the ladder system in battle servers.

There are several methods to tweak this on battle servers imo, either make them unbreakable or extremely hard to break, make ladder unsheathable once again, limit the number of ladders available per round/map, get new admins to avoid constant game stalling  , etc.

A single decent shielder can go up that ladder and wreck havoc amongst the several camping players, a single decent arbalester can clear a rooftop 1 by 1 easily, damn even horsies can go to rooftops sometimes D:

These are just small tweaks that can easily avoid the "kill it with fire" easy option regarding archery.

[Skysong]

Problem is there are too much (or too often) village maps. So it becomes a roof fest.
Making roof unreachable is not enough also. We need some more open fields.
Some ruins/small walls/rivers/woods are ok in the field but no more village every round. 

[Tristan]

I love your signature Karasu

[Corrado_Decimo]

Problem is there are too much (or too often) village maps. So it becomes a roof fest.
Making roof unreachable is not enough also. We need some more open fields.
Some ruins/small walls/rivers/woods are ok in the field but no more village every round.

well we need urban warfare also. unreachable roofs are an improvement since you can't play just open maps or we'll see the old cav ruin-like spam back.

Totally agree with 3) but the other two you simply can't have both at the same time. Taking this into account would make sense, not to even gimp the archer more (surviv-wise) but fix the ladder system in battle servers.

There are several methods to tweak this on battle servers imo, either make them unbreakable or extremely hard to break, make ladder unsheathable once again, limit the number of ladders available per round/map, get new admins to avoid constant game stalling  , etc.

A single decent shielder can go up that ladder and wreck havoc amongst the several camping players, a single decent arbalester can clear a rooftop 1 by 1 easily, damn even horsies can go to rooftops sometimes D:

These are just small tweaks that can easily avoid the "kill it with fire" easy option regarding archery.

totally agree. there is no need to screw all things up. balance is achieved at little steps.. it's a too fragile variable.

[Rage_Guy]

When I joined crpg(may 2011) there was shittons of damn good maps,balanced for everyone(my old friend-chers,melee,backstabber cav)I really liked those maps,but now all maps look same for me roofs,roofs,villages,roofs.....

[BlackMilk]

Maps on Siege are even worse.

[Gomer]

Wow this is a post for a bunch of whiney bitches. Don't like the game? Don't play. I don't need to hear your shit. Arcvhers are fine it takes 3-4 arrows with 8pd for me to kill a medium armored guy so it's fair. There's tons of us... There's tons of melee! Don't remove ladders make them unbreakable in battle only breakable in sige. Shut your shit up about turn and shoot. It's luck if we kill you. It's a valid tactic. When 4 guys chase us around the map those 4 guys are out of the fight and therefor it's tactically applicable. SHUT UR SHIT UP STOP BITCHING

Btw Auto Balance is fine. The other day I was on a team of 20vs40 the 20 team won because auto balance is cool You hate auto balance when you lose and love it when you win. Shut your bitching up. chadz doesn't listen to bitching so if you have a valid complaint make one and stop your crying.