Post Patch balance issues. (TLTR: Nerf Archers,check Armour Weights)

[Ylca]

As usual not even 24 hours into the patch there are calls for nerfing archery. I really hope there's a list somewhere of everyone who says "nerf x" before the patch has been out long enough for any real testing to be done so that their balance "contributions" can be ignored in the future.

You're not balancing the game to make your class the best, you're balancing for variety. Yeah it sucks to get killed by other people, what sucks worse is not getting killed by anyone because we end up with a cookie cutter one-build game.

[Tydeus]

K:D is a pretty shitty way to balance classes. If every class has the killing potential of a two-hander or a polearm user, then you don't have balance. There is such a thing as risk vs. reward. Truth is, archers stand back and let everyone else take the risks. You can play a "riskier" game by staying closer to melee, but you're still low risk comparatively. Same with 1h vs two-handers/polearms you have a forcefield, thus less risk.

To go further still, as it's important for people to realize this with ranged; Archers hit the same enemy most, just before a melee clash. This means that over the span of the 10 seconds or so that it takes an enemy to go from max accuracy firing range to melee(not with the archer, but with his team's melee), as long as you don't land the killing blow (which would most likely require 3-5 hits depending on armor), chances are you won't get the killing blow as the guy you were focusing on, is now lost in the initial melee confrontation. Even if you did 1/2-99% of his HP, you still didn't get the killing blow, thus you just scored a lower amount of kills than what you (in one way or another) deserve. And this is every single round and for each melee confrontation within the round, that this happens.

At the end of the day it comes down to this: Kills are determined not by those who do the most damage, but by those who get lucky and land the killing blow. I'd love to see the average amount of damage done per round for each class. I'd bet that archers get twice as much damage, at least, than what the average amount of hp is, yet still get half as many killing blows. Whereas melee is probably closer to a 1:1 3:2 ratio.

[Haze_The_Hobo]

i hope not

Mainly cuz ur a whimp.

I couldn't agree more with Thomek, nor could anyone with reason.

[Bulzur]

Agree With Thomek about everything.

A while back, you had to choose accuracy OR damage for archery. As it is now, stupid rusbow has both of thoses with even an amazing draw speed. To stop a bit more pewpew, i wouldn't mind limiting ALL to a max of 2 quivers. Thoses hornbow bastards with 3 quivers of bodkins arrows, and 8 Athl, are also just... a real pain.


Cav was always overpowered, providing you had money. New armor made them just more likely to onehit you. Not even speaking of the ridculous armored 1h/shield cav, and is "easy" bump/slash.


I noticed the 2h stab to be also more efficient. But there's still a majority of polearm's user around, so no big deal i guess.

[Ylca]

K:D is a pretty shitty way to balance classes. If every class has the killing potential of a two-hander or a polearm user, then you don't have balance. There is such a thing as risk vs. reward. Truth is, archers stand back and let everyone else take the risks. You can play a "riskier" game by staying closer to melee, but you're still low risk comparatively. Same with 1h vs two-handers/polearms you have a forcefield, thus less risk.

To go further still, as it's important for people to realize this with ranged; Archers hit the same enemy most, just before a melee clash. This means that over the span of the 10 seconds or so that it takes an enemy to go from max accuracy firing range to melee(not with the archer, but with his team's melee), as long as you don't land the killing blow (which would most likely require 3-5 hits depending on armor), chances are you won't get the killing blow as the guy you were focusing on, is now lost in the initial melee confrontation. Even if you did 1/2-99% of his HP, you still didn't get the killing blow, thus you just scored a lower amount of kills than what you (in one way or another) deserve. And this is every single round and for each melee confrontation within the round, that this happens.

At the end of the day it comes down to this: Kills are determined not by those who do the most damage, but by those who get lucky and land the killing blow. I'd love to see the average amount of damage done per round for each class. I'd bet that archers get twice as much damage, at least, than what the average amount of hp is, yet still get half as many killing blows. Whereas melee is probably closer to a 1:1 3:2 ratio.

The risk comes in never being able to wear armor and having little close combat ability. While everyone else is screaming about "risk" in their 80 points of armor, archers are running about taking potshots, constantly targeted by cav, xbow, and other archers, and get to take about 1.5 hits from anything before they are dead. Yes, risk vs reward when your 2 hander can take 8 hits from another melee opponent and multiple headshots from my bow, but i can only get hit once before i'm completely screwed.

[_GTX_]

The risk comes in never being able to wear armor and having little close combat ability. While everyone else is screaming about "risk" in their 80 points of armor, archers are running about taking potshots, constantly targeted by cav, xbow, and other archers, and get to take about 1.5 hits from anything before they are dead. Yes, risk vs reward when your 2 hander can take 8 hits from another melee opponent and multiple headshots from my bow, but i can only get hit once before i'm completely screwed.

are u serous? christ..... this is for sure an opinion/hate, not facts as most of what tydeus said.

 I can take in average 2-3 hits from another melee weapon(with +2 light kuyak), probably 2 mostly with all of the armor nerfs recently. And archer headshots for sure stand a good chance 1 hitting me, same goes with xbow.
 
Would go more into details normally, but since this looks like an opinion, i dont think it would lead anywhere.

[Taggerung]

Oh heaven forbid if you can actually LAND the damn head shot it should kill people!

NERF NERF NERF....


Grow up and buy a shield.

[Xant]

no u grow up and buy a shield

[karasu]

Here goes rage:

Let's look at the easy one first,

Nerf Archers.

1st Argument is that they are too many, and their numbers need to be kept down, or ruin gameplay as we know it. If not we become native which is an fps with some melee sugar.
2nd Argument is that they are now insanely powerful. They haven't done so much damage since oct last year? Long time ago.. Today I got 1 shotted in my triple loomed lamellar with double loomed lamellar gloves. (53 hp) It was by a MW longbow with MW arrows, but still.  My STR STF char loose 70% or more HP with chainmail. Horses get`s one shotted too. Dunno whats going on here.. For sure the armour nerfs became a nice + for Archers and ranged. I do agree that the loomed vs non-loomed armour gap should go down to help new players, but look at arrowdamage. please.

Honestly it's not a single case of a STR (and extremely useless) archer that would make a whole class OP. The armor loom contribution was nerfed, and so was every single archery item tweaked down.

In fact, it's rare the case when archers top scoreboards, it's always the same 4 or 5 specimens that stand out. Archery becomes strong in numbers, and it's not by nerfing it to the ground that will change the amount of people using it, and it always makes the difference, we have witnessed this over and over again with our solid item balancing team.
All these changes, including the removal of the retarded jump shoot only led to more camping and athletic relying running archers.

And this applies to every class, when there are 20+ shielders vs a team it's hell on earth, same for cav, same for blood hungry 2h, etc.

But guess what, you can always get a shield, archers "can't", and with all the gear/build restrictions upon them, they're as soft as butter in summer time.

Cheerio

edit: forgot to add that now archer gear is even heavier, so hitting one its not cutting butter on summertime, it's simply trampling an insect and not realizing.

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

One thing, has the armour reduction caused cavalry bump to become more effective? I've found I take more damage now due to it which is very frustrating, cav goes in for kill, misses, prevents me from striking by turning slightly to the side. He missed his hit, why should he then be able to prevent me from hitting with mine, while also doing damage?

[Dezilagel]

And this applies to every class, when there are 20+ shielders vs a team it's hell on earth, same for cav, same for blood hungry 2h, etc.

I don't get this, since when did a team full of shielders stand out as extra dangerous? Even less so with 2h. Cavstacking can be a bit annoying I admit, but then cav is so easily countered by a bit of (lame) camping.

Archers have range, damage, map control and the ability to take out extremely good players with minimal effort.

When you have 20 shielders on the enemy team they force you to stay extra concentrated in the melee fights, 20 2h requires you to put forth some duelling skills and 20 cav means you'll have to be very aware of your surroundings.

20 archers force you to hide the whole round, hoping that your team's ranged can do enough damage to them so that you won't get instantly shot to pieces as soon as you poke your head out.


Shielders should be more effective at dealing with archers than they currently are.

[Casimir]

The only solution is to buff 2h cavalry significantly

[karasu]

Don't worry deli, I wasn't expecting you to get it anyway.

PS: you can always get a shield (...)

[Dezilagel]

Don't worry deli, I wasn't expecting you to get it anyway.

PS: you can always get a shield (...)

Nice dodge, but archerteams are still the no.1 annoyance

PS: I have a shield (...)

[Vibe]

Tbh I don't mind archers IF and only IF they do not roofcamp. Seriously, roofcamping = cheat. No danger from infantry and cav there, and no danger from enemy archers either, since they prefer to shoot melee anyway (like Dezi said).
Roofcamping should be removed, infantry and cavalry should work as a team to protect their archers on the ground and not just killhunt.