Author Topic: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership  (Read 9168 times)

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Offline Vibe

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #60 on: November 25, 2011, 05:11:10 pm »
0
I'm still not convinced. This won't only break alliances, but bigger clans too. There's just not enough space, atleast in EU, for this to work.
What's stopping bigger factions from taking over the whole world? Well perhaps dozens of other big factions.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 05:12:58 pm by Vibe »

Offline Keshian

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #61 on: November 25, 2011, 05:11:24 pm »
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Really good idea.  Could use more of a bonus.  50K xp and 500 gold for a village ownership, hell I make that in half an hour of playing cRPG if not less.  So not soemthing worth fighting over.  Maybe 1000xp per 1 pop and 10 gold per 1 pop, so more like 500K xp and 5000 gold, which frankly I can still make playing for 4 hours cRPG that day, but is enough of a bonus that people willa ctually get greedy about owning fiefs. 

The lower amount doesn't mean anything to me and I don't care who owns a fief, but the higher amount, hell yes I will fight someone over it.
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Offline Harpag

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #62 on: November 25, 2011, 06:25:43 pm »
+1
I'm not sure what exactly you want to achieve, but if you want to popularize Stratagus among the cRPG players (great idea), symbolic changes are not a remedy, especially during the Skyrim plague...
I'm not completely sure how others see it, but I have a right to speak on behalf of the Grey Order. The main reason for playing strategus is ability to play together as a clan. For trying to play together on the siege servers, we were nearly lynched. The truth is that people are attached to their characters in cRPG, so you must give them something. They must have good reason to play Strategus, different than strong ties of friendship between members of the clan and the pleasure from playing together with friends, especially because the number of battles is small, and additionally clashes are small, short and poor.
In my opinion Stratagus requires a large pre-Christmas promotion  :) I suggest a really big bonus XP / gold + minor changes proposed here.
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Offline PhantomZero

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #63 on: November 25, 2011, 06:30:40 pm »
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Really good idea.  Could use more of a bonus.  50K xp and 500 gold for a village ownership, hell I make that in half an hour of playing cRPG if not less.  So not soemthing worth fighting over.  Maybe 1000xp per 1 pop and 10 gold per 1 pop, so more like 500K xp and 5000 gold, which frankly I can still make playing for 4 hours cRPG that day, but is enough of a bonus that people willa ctually get greedy about owning fiefs. 

The lower amount doesn't mean anything to me and I don't care who owns a fief, but the higher amount, hell yes I will fight someone over it.

That will be the benefit to owning towns and castles over the villages. It's worth fighting over to give more of your members stuffs.
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Offline Dehitay

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #64 on: November 25, 2011, 06:48:36 pm »
+1
I still don't think you get why this is getting introduced. The point is that the bonus is awarded to one person. Just one. So people want it for themselves. Not a group. Just one person. The fun thing is that it's not shareable. So if you have a big faction with few fiefs, this might cause internal trouble. Probably not right away. But sooner or later, people will ask why they can't get a fief for themselves. Why the clan leader gets 100k xp for free every day, and the 2nd one doesn't. If you really need this big alliance with 8 factions. If you wouldn't gain a larger advantage if you just kill the weaker factions and have an alliance with 4. Because then you could give half of your members a fief, and more of your clan would profit. Or you could stack it on yourself and have a char that basically retires by itself.

Doing some communist thing here is exactly the wrong approach. I don't give cRPG bonus because I feel that's the correct way to do it. I want to give a cRPG bonus because people are more attached to their cRPG char than what they have with their strategus char. When was the last time you gave away strat-goods to a clan member without any kind of refunding. And when was the last time you gave away an heirloom without any kind of refunding. Now you know why I want to make the reward based on cRPG.

This is just one step, maybe it suffices, maybe not. It might just be the start.
I don't think this is going to work out exactly the way you're expecting. Indeed, this will cause a small amount of internal strife in clans over who gets fief ownership, but this practically garunteed to be solved politically rather than violently. It will however increase the amount of crpg gold to spend on buying troops and strat gold from players, so I think it's kind of a boost to strat as well. As far as cross faction conflict, I think this is actually just as likely to solidify peace as it is to break it. Now that you have a certain number of fiefs, you're going to want to solidify the number of fiefs and therefore bonuses you have. The logical way to do this is to start a giant ass alliance to deter any battles and try not to piss anybody off strong enough to take you on. So the clans who approach this from a more logical perspective (current carebear alliances) will actually try even harder to prevent battles, while the clans already interested in the fun of war (FCC-type) will be the ones who are actually motivated to fight by this.

If you want to see the amount of battles increasing, just reward violent behavior. The carebear alliances can sit back all they want, but if war-mongers get good production boosts, they can just steamroll through peaceful factions.

Offline Gristle

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #65 on: November 25, 2011, 07:56:06 pm »
+2
As a very biased fief owner who desperately needs cRPG gold, I support this.

Offline Cepeshi

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #66 on: November 25, 2011, 07:59:56 pm »
+2
How bout fief ownage gives percentual chance every day to increase crafting skill of one item of the owner?

Offline mandible/splinteryourjaw

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #67 on: November 25, 2011, 08:08:39 pm »
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I still don't think you get why this is getting introduced. The point is that the bonus is awarded to one person. Just one. So people want it for themselves. Not a group. Just one person. The fun thing is that it's not shareable. So if you have a big faction with few fiefs, this might cause internal trouble. Probably not right away. But sooner or later, people will ask why they can't get a fief for themselves. Why the clan leader gets 100k xp for free every day, and the 2nd one doesn't. If you really need this big alliance with 8 factions. If you wouldn't gain a larger advantage if you just kill the weaker factions and have an alliance with 4. Because then you could give half of your members a fief, and more of your clan would profit. Or you could stack it on yourself and have a char that basically retires by itself.

Doing some communist thing here is exactly the wrong approach. I don't give cRPG bonus because I feel that's the correct way to do it. I want to give a cRPG bonus because people are more attached to their cRPG char than what they have with their strategus char. When was the last time you gave away strat-goods to a clan member without any kind of refunding. And when was the last time you gave away an heirloom without any kind of refunding. Now you know why I want to make the reward based on cRPG.

This is just one step, maybe it suffices, maybe not. It might just be the start.

I'm not sure it would be effective because the command structure has been in place for so long.  Its almost like you have a clan of 50 yet only 3 people actually playing; the others are simply go'fers.  Bandits, independent merchants, and those that chase them are the only ones that really seem active.  This may destroy the larger clans structure, causing more smaller clans; but, I doubt it.

How about a more complicated system where actions are forced.  How about keeping your formula but every night, by independent roll of the dice, something either good or bad happens to the village.  This occurance then will require an action to help advert the total destruction of the landowner.  For example:

1.  one roll causes plague to sweep the land, population decreases by 50% and to save the fief the owner must import 500 kittens from zagush (this being a DRZ fief and zagush HRE.)
2. one roll population and production have exceeded demand by so much the fief is dying from its own prosperity.  To avert the catastrophe the owner must acquire new land to help disperse the population and contain the squalor.  The dice roll could even name the fief the owner would need to conquer.  If the owner does not conquer the fief in the allotted time he loses everything and I mean everything and the fief becomes destitute and independent.
3.  one roll production is decreased to almost nothing, due to a surplus of inventory, and the owner must take control of another territory to help disperse his inventory and bring new inventory to his fief.
4.  one roll  village uprising somehow the village has acquired weapons and looks to become independent.  This could be further complicated by another players roll requiring him to supply the villagers with the arms necessary to break free...if either party fails to perform the task they end up destitute and the village becomes AI owned again

These are not well thought out and written as fast as I could type, but it would seem something could be done with the code to force battles or lords to become destitute.  I would love to see random AI armies roaming the map with a roll of the dice sending them to war with any fief.

More than anything we need to move faster, so we can raid, and I know the equipment fix is difficult to implement, but it really is killing a lot of people's desire to fight.  When you win you should be able to take that person's inventory not lose yours.  I also think winners not getting the gold of the loser is a good idea.  As strat doesn't have banks, anything not in equipment or goods should be retained after a battle.

Offline Tristan

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #68 on: November 25, 2011, 08:25:35 pm »
+1
Regard drz as an example. In all honesty it comes down to a few valid large clans that can then evenly distribute the bonus among them.

The small to mid sized clans still have no say and with a bonus to fief owners they will be even more keen to infighting.

What is needed is a way for decentralization to be advantageous.

As long as the average joe is nothing but a trade good producing puppet, symbolic changes is gonna do nothing but boost the ego of fief owners.

The suggest will at best change nothing, at worst be the death of independent smaller clans.
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Offline Lennu

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #69 on: November 25, 2011, 08:31:27 pm »
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I really don't support this free exp bonus for fief owners.

How about giving the fief owner small bonus to crafting/recruiting instead of exp?

Or, this exp bonus could be turned into another "gen bonus" so = 3% more exp in crpg (or maybe less). This way you would have to work for your exp insted of getting it for free. And maybe by being a fief owner in strat would be the only way to exceed max gen bonus you can have atm.
Ofc, this way those that have already capped their gen bonuses might end up getting the fiefs because they'll get the best bonuses out of it.


Do we need any bonunses for fief owners at all? Isn't that purple text enough? That text is like mental penis enlargement already.

Offline Dehitay

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #70 on: November 25, 2011, 09:15:08 pm »
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Or, this exp bonus could be turned into another "gen bonus" so = 3% more exp in crpg (or maybe less). This way you would have to work for your exp insted of getting it for free. And maybe by being a fief owner in strat would be the only way to exceed max gen bonus you can have atm.
This is definitely better than the flat rate bonus! It could also be coded to affect gold if that incentive is also to be used
+1

Offline Bjarky

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #71 on: November 25, 2011, 09:35:11 pm »
+3
I rather see random ai armies showing up, giving clans a hard time to defend random fiefs or armies, this can get other clans to take use of this advantage and join in and help destoying the unlucky faction/s.
It will definitely suck ass for the unlucky victim/s, but it could cause some serious drama, possibly great battles and add some more variation to strat :twisted:
Not to forget, what grand RP threads we could make of this  8-)

Offline Nessaj

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #72 on: November 25, 2011, 09:52:39 pm »
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Look at all the non-landowners opposing this great and honest change. This is class warfare and we will not have it.

 8-)
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Offline Cosmos_Shielder

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #73 on: November 25, 2011, 09:58:16 pm »
+1
I rather see random ai armies showing up, giving clans a hard time to defend random fiefs or armies, this can get other clans to take use of this advantage and join in and help destoying the unlucky faction/s.
It will definitely suck ass for the unlucky victim/s, but it could cause some serious drama, possibly great battles and add some more variation to strat :twisted:
Not to forget, what grand RP threads we could make of this  8-)
+1
Something like every sunday wave of Ai are trying to get back those villages . We could call that Peasant rebellion , bandits attack, Stranger comming from out of Calradia to pillage villages.
 That would give some hard time to clan who only camp on their alliances .

Offline Braeden

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Re: Controverse suggestion: fief ownership
« Reply #74 on: November 25, 2011, 10:04:04 pm »
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Look at all the non-landowners opposing this great and honest change. This is class warfare and we will not have it.

 8-)

Creating discontent among the non-landowners is kinda the entire point.