can we all admit the new (last balance patch) archer paradigm is fucking terribl

[Teeth]

As for the Horn Bow. Not wrong. Horn bows have been the most popular bow for a while since before the change was made. You see always see floods of them. Far more than long bows or war bows.

This is just not true, before the patch it was warbow and a few chose the slow pierce of the longbow. Barely any strongbows at all.

I still say that archers are only annoying because there are a lot of them. When I play my horse archer they are a pain in the arse for me to. But I think the problem is in the number of them rather than in the way they work. And like I said, I think there are other reasons for that.

I actually agree with you on this, archery is very popular for some reason. Individually they are not overpowered, the problem is there are a lot of them. Currently it is not all that bad, archery is fine as soon as ladders are removed from battle and some maps are fixed to disencourage roofcamping.

But, buffing archery slightly will not make the individual archer OP, but will increase the number of archers to game breaking levels. Archery needs to be underpowered to prevent that there are too much archers. Stop liking archery and it might get buffed.

[Arrowblood]

I still say that we have more elite archers than elite melee. Invite some rl friends, give them some mw melee stuff and the problem is solved .                                                                                                                                     Ok not really .  Give the pierce dmg to the bodkins if its a +2 . Trust me this will reduce the archer population for some month.

[Tzar]

Before archers topping the score board was rare since it required aimed shots to leg and head... watch jambi play an see how he works he did just fine before the buff...

Now every1 can do it you just gotta spam arrows and hit your target 3 or 2 times and voila your a pro archer u dont even have to aim for legs or head with bodkins...

Thus we now have a shitload of archers since its easy to play the class an top the scoreboard....

Its unavoidable unless they make archers support classes again an not a medieval rambo class as we have now....

[MrShine]

To quote myself: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,18247.msg260709.html#msg260709

"Bodkins will kill tin cans in about 5 or 6 hits on the average.
Bodkins will kill mid-heavy troops in about 4 hits on the average.
Bodkins will kill lighter troops in about 2-3 hits on the average."

^ that's with a MW horn bow and MW bodkins, and 5 PD.  That's the basic complaint, right?  The fast shooting horn bow?  Well mine was fully masterworked, and granted I only had 5 powerdraw for this test this probably represents standard hornbow/bodkin users with 6 (maybe 7 ) PD scenarios.  Are there archers who do more damage than me?  Of course.  But on the average I doubt things will change very much. 


I've had very few problems with archers in my last two gens (2H and this one Polearm).  Last gen I put 1 point into shield skill so I could bust out a plain board shield if the enemy team was flush with archers, this gen I skipped it entirely.  Pick your battles and be aware of your surroundings and archers aren't nearly as much of a problem.

If you're bee-lining it for GLORIOUS MELEE COMBAT and are bitching about getting shot by the enemy archers who have an easy shot that's your fault.  If you're really concerned about it I'm going to say what everyone says: get some damn shield skill.  Honestly even with a crappy plain board shield archers would simply refuse to shoot at me when I had it out and would focus squishier targets. 

TLDR- adapt your playstyle

[Taggerung]

Before archers topping the score board was rare since it required aimed shots to leg and head... watch jambi play an see how he works he did just fine before the buff...

Now every1 can do it you just gotta spam arrows and hit your target 3 or 2 times and voila your a pro archer u dont even have to aim for legs or head with bodkins...

Thus we now have a shitload of archers since its easy to play the class an top the scoreboard....

Its unavoidable unless they make archers support classes again an not a medieval rambo class as we have now....

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Konrax]

Maybe shields are looking a little more useful now?

[Spa_geh_tea]

Nerf the skill points available to power draw. Double the req for bows, then archers can't be inert hybrids. Or double the agi requirment per pd. So, 6 agi per pd. They tried this with cav and really put a hamper on skill point allocation.

[Paul]

Nerf the skill points available to power draw. Double the req for bows, then archers can't be inert hybrids. Or double the agi requirment per pd. So, 6 agi per pd. They tried this with cav and really put a hamper on skill point allocation.

Ye, agi per pd... Maybe try playing an archer before suggesting stuff? Also, archers already have the least hybrid ability. Probably that's even part of the problem.

[mandible/splinteryourjaw]

Ye, agi per pd... Maybe try playing an archer before suggesting stuff? Also, archers already have the least hybrid ability. Probably that's even part of the problem.

This

to be effective an archer has very little choice in point allocation.

Horn bows were and still are the most popular (with longbow reaching that level for a short time and the rus bow enjoying some success now)
why: because of the amount of ammo you can carry:  maybe melee should be limited to 15 swings per slot.

Say what you want about bodkins vs others...I personally carry a quiver of bodkins early too shoot the heavier armored guys/horses and then fill my slots with reg arrows (sometimes tartars.)  Sometimes, when I'm being greedy and looking to just get kills, I will fill all my slots with tartars NOT BODKINS!!!  I find the cut damage does what I want...and its just plain ignorant to think a bow should determine damage type, though you are correct when you say the longbow should be the most powerful  (ooohhh look it is...hhhhhhmmmmmmmm!)

Archers are simply  more noticeable because they hit you when you don't expect it and YOU CAN"T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!!  and that makes you angry.  Just remember you were shot by that archer because of a battlefield error you made, and that makes you angrier.  Shocktroopers, guerillas, 2nd line offence are what archers are and you shouldn't be able to reach them w/o killing all the melee between.

If you want to complain about things that seem absurd then complain about tincans jumping 8 ft in the air to hack a knight off his horse, or cav climbling a ladder and walking rooftops killing archers, or facehugging a polearmer who is repeatedly stabbing you with the end of his pole (which is 6ft behind you.)  Archers are doing what they are built to do.

If you think archery is easy then try it,  I've did the others and I like the constant awareness, thinking, plotting, planning, running for a specific angle, just constant readjusting you have to do to stay alive in archery.  If an archer lets his guard down for one second he is dead.  Melee you just run in with your guard down and spam most of the time, though some will try to out-think the other player, most run in and spam.   yyyeeee-hhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwww now thats what I call fun.  I bet cav use/cover the biggest part of the field, followed by archers, and then way behind you will find the straight line running melee players (TTHHHWWAACCCKKK!!!   eeewww looks like one less melee player!)

[Dezilagel]

(click to show/hide)

This

to be effective an archer has very little choice in point allocation.

Horn bows were and still are the most popular (with longbow reaching that level for a short time and the rus bow enjoying some success now)
why: because of the amount of ammo you can carry:  maybe melee should be limited to 15 swings per slot.

Say what you want about bodkins vs others...I personally carry a quiver of bodkins early too shoot the heavier armored guys/horses and then fill my slots with reg arrows (sometimes tartars.)  Sometimes, when I'm being greedy and looking to just get kills, I will fill all my slots with tartars NOT BODKINS!!!  I find the cut damage does what I want...and its just plain ignorant to think a bow should determine damage type, though you are correct when you say the longbow should be the most powerful  (ooohhh look it is...hhhhhhmmmmmmmm!)

Archers are simply  more noticeable because they hit you when you don't expect it and YOU CAN"T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!!  and that makes you angry.  Just remember you were shot by that archer because of a battlefield error you made, and that makes you angrier.  Shocktroopers, guerillas, 2nd line offence are what archers are and you shouldn't be able to reach them w/o killing all the melee between.

If you want to complain about things that seem absurd then complain about tincans jumping 8 ft in the air to hack a knight off his horse, or cav climbling a ladder and walking rooftops killing archers, or facehugging a polearmer who is repeatedly stabbing you with the end of his pole (which is 6ft behind you.)  Archers are doing what they are built to do.

If you think archery is easy then try it,  I've did the others and I like the constant awareness, thinking, plotting, planning, running for a specific angle, just constant readjusting you have to do to stay alive in archery.  If an archer lets his guard down for one second he is dead.  Melee you just run in with your guard down and spam most of the time, though some will try to out-think the other player, most run in and spam.   yyyeeee-hhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwww now thats what I call fun.  I bet cav use/cover the biggest part of the field, followed by archers, and then way behind you will find the straight line running melee players (TTHHHWWAACCCKKK!!!   eeewww looks like one less melee player!)

Oh look, it's that guy again.

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Not going to bother with making a proper reply, but I made some diagrams to help explain how to do that "running for a specific angle" thing:

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[mandible/splinteryourjaw]

OHHH poor thang!!!  What made poor little Dezi do this to herself.

Could it be:  ?

[Lech]

I got killed several times by just BODY 2 arrows from archermy old friends. I have lordly Heraldic Mail with Tabard and Lordly Mail Mittens. Something is wrong with archery. I got one hit killed in the body  by xbow.

Seriously, nerf ranged.

[Jarlek]

I got killed several times by just BODY 2 arrows from archermy old friends. I have lordly Heraldic Mail with Tabard and Lordly Mail Mittens. Something is wrong with archery. I got one hit killed in the body  by xbow.

Seriously, nerf ranged.

Lech. Aren't you a high athl with a light and fast shield? What should be one of the BEST builds to kill archers? Look, it's not 2hs that whine about ranged in this thread. It is EVERYONE, 2h, pikemen, hoplites, shielders and agi shielders. Archery is BS right now.

[Tzar]

Buuu!! buU!!!! Nerf range plOx!!!

[Lech]

Lech. Aren't you a high athl with a light and fast shield? What should be one of the BEST builds to kill archers? Look, it's not 2hs that whine about ranged in this thread. It is EVERYONE, 2h, pikemen, hoplites, shielders and agi shielders. Archery is BS right now.

15-24, and light shield. It's not good for archer hunting, they can still run away from me freely even with just 18 agi like bagge. Problem is, shield and 1h affect movement a lot, while bows and arrows don't affect it so much, and archers can use lighter armor as they don't have to go into melee and don't have to worry so much about stray bolts, arrows and horses.

I'll go 15-27 or even 15-30, just to counter those my old friends. If it's not enough, i'd go 12-33 or 9-36.