Author Topic: can we all admit the new (last balance patch) archer paradigm is fucking terribl  (Read 8809 times)

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Offline a_bear_irl

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It's only a battle if sweaty men with long 2 handed weapons fight each other, undisturbed by ranged or cavalry.

surely you see an issue with archers being more dangerous than melee units up close
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Offline Dezilagel

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surely you see an issue with archers being more dangerous than melee units up close

Yep, that's weird. Even when I tried shielder I still feared archers more then melee. When fighting.
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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Yep, that's weird. Even when I tried shielder I still feared archers more then melee. When fighting.
Weird... as my shielder I don't mind archers at all... maybe it is because I spend so much time as an archer I know what they can or can not do... Well... Actually in truth my Huscarl shielder does not fear archers, my lulzy 4 shield skill shielder actually has real issues against archers unless I am absolutely on my toes. But my real shielder is comfortable against everything but hiltslashing two handers, or certain cav.

Pew Pew Pew!
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 08:57:45 pm by Tears of Destiny »
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Offline Dezilagel

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Weird... as my shielder I don't mind archers at all... maybe it is because I spend so much time as an archer I know what they can or can not do... Well... Actually in truth my Huscarl shielder does not fear archers, my lulzy 4 shield skill shielder actually has real issues against archers unless I am absolutely on my toes. But my real shielder is comfortable against everything but hiltslashing two handers, or certain cav.

Pew Pew Pew!

Aah, but then you have no idea just how comfortable I am in melee  :twisted:

Seriously though, it's because when they launch stunning arrows of massive damage (thx to extra_penetration), they just give you no options. Either you chase them in which case they just run away and you get slashed in the back or you continue fighting in which case they stun you to death.

Well sometimes they hit their teammate instead but then you just feel sorry for your opponent for dying in such a lame way.
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Offline Teeth

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What is it with archery that everyone wants to be one, it is not really that easy a class, it's upkeep heavy, still further nerfing is required cause of the sheer amount of archers. Individually archery isn't OP. But if 30% of the server is archer it is horrifying.

You play a game with an outstanding melee system, and there you go shoot stuff, like in every other fucking game. What the hell?

Offline Tears of Destiny

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You play a game with an outstanding melee system, and there you go shoot stuff, like in every other fucking game. What the hell?

Well... I do play a lot of melee (have played more melee then range to be honest), but this is the only online game with a nice archery system that does not suck.
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
Death is a fun way to pass the time though, several little bullets moving in staccato.
The terror of my reign will live on in infamy, singing when they die like a dead man's symphony.

Offline PieParadox

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I like being an archer except when there are other archers or crossbowmen. Then sometimes I die.

Offline Lech

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Well... I do play a lot of melee (have played more melee then range to be honest), but this is the only online game with a nice archery system that does not suck.

Well, you have the point.

Offline Overdriven

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Lol melee complaining as usual.

Dumb thread.

Fact is, bodkins aren't really that more lethal than my barbs. I maybe have to use 1 arrow more with barbs than I do with bodkins. Ooooo big deal. On both my foot archer and horse archer char I use barbed arrows. More ammo to fire at you for FAR cheaper and the damage difference is so insignificant I don't really notice the difference in the number of arrows it takes to kill you when I'm in the middle of a game and there's certainly no difference in the number of kills I get either way.

The only time bodkins are useful is against the very highest tier armour, because barbs bounce. But against the vast majority they really aren't needed or matter that much.

Horn bows have always been the most popular bow even before the arrow determining damage.

Archers really aren't that lethal. Melee just aren't happy unless cav/ranged are given a very background roll and told to watch a (not so) epic duel between 2 nub melee guys.

Fact is, the only reason you guys notice archers atm is because there are a lot of them. Does that mean they should be changed? Not at all. There are several theories as to why there are so many archers atm *cough* strat mains *cough* but the fact is archers actually get relatively few kills in comparison to cav/melee except for the best archers. It's just there are a lot of them to annoy you.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 03:39:50 am by Overdriven »

Offline a_bear_irl

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the only people arguing the changes make sense are archers

Quote
bodkins aren't really that more lethal than my barbs


nope bodkins kill about twice as quickly as the other arrows (that is, in half the arrows)

Quote
The only time bodkins are useful is against the very highest tier armour, because barbs bounce

flat out wrong

Quote
Horn bows have always been the most popular bow even before the arrow determining damage.
also wrong

Quote
Archers really aren't that lethal
a hornbow archer with bodkins and a decent build will kill me in less hits than pretty much all cut weapons

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Offline Elmokki

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I switched AWAY from 1h + shield since all it did was possibly save me from arrows coming from one direction. 2h/polearm build has to avoid archers more, but what does it matter since it's not like the shield build could do anything to archers either. Better to just avoid them regardless of your melee build :D

Seriously, saying that archers are fine when people start bringing more shields is bullshit. You need to slow down archers and give shields larger coverage for that to help.

Next gen I think I'll make a thrower if I can figure out a satisfying enough build.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 11:32:23 am by Elmokki »

Offline Dezilagel

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IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE YOU ARE A HORRIBLE MELEE PLAYER.

ALSO: HAVE YOU SEEN THE STATS FOR DAMAGE TYPE ARMOR PENETRATION WHEN IT COMES TO ARROWS? (WELL, IF YOU HAD YOU WOULDN'T POST SUCH STUPIDITY AS "BODKINS ARE USELESS).

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Offline Teeth

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You would do well not to listen to Overdriven in any balance discussion. First of all half his statements are untrue and make no sense, he is also completely biased. I must confess I am too, but atleast I try to get my facts right.

Give ranged the same armour penetration values as melee, or the other way around. As Dezilagel has perfectly pointed out in the past. Armour is vastly more effective versus melee, which has lead to the sluggish ten hit combat we have nowadays. Ranged ignores a ton more armour than melee, while ranged is the main reason I clad myself in heavy armour.

Which doesn't make sense in my opinion, make armour equal vs ranged and melee.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 01:17:29 pm by SgtTeeh »

Offline Overdriven

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the only people arguing the changes make sense are archers
 

nope bodkins kill about twice as quickly as the other arrows (that is, in half the arrows)

flat out wrong
also wrong
a hornbow archer with bodkins and a decent build will kill me in less hits than pretty much all cut weapons

Exactly...which is the way it was always going to be. Same thing happened with cav :rolleyes:

It largely depends on who you are shooting. Light armoured people really don't die any faster with bodkins. You'll notice it very slightly against medium armour, but you'll only REALLY notice it when you're shooting against heavies. I don't care if you insist they kill twice as quickly, because they definitely don't against the vast majority of targets. When it comes to medium armour, I would have to use 4 arrows instead of 5 with bodkins. I used them for a good amount of time and they didn't hurt as much as you'd think, certainly not enough to out weigh the cost and lack of ammo. And when it comes to lighter armour they aren't worth it.

As for the Horn Bow. Not wrong. Horn bows have been the most popular bow for a while since before the change was made. You see always see floods of them. Far more than long bows or war bows.

You would do well not to listen to Overdriven in any balance discussion. First of all half his statements are untrue and make no sense, he is also completely biased. I must confess I am too, but atleast I try to get my facts right.

Give ranged the same armour penetration values as melee, or the other way around. As Dezilagel has perfectly pointed out in the past. Armour is vastly more effective versus melee, which has lead to the sluggish ten hit combat we have nowadays. Ranged ignores a ton more armour than melee, while ranged is the main reason I clad myself in heavy armour.

Which doesn't make sense in my opinion, make armour equal vs ranged and melee.

Hmm yes you always come out with correct, factual statements  :rolleyes:

I still say that archers are only annoying because there are a lot of them. When I play my horse archer they are a pain in the arse for me to. But I think the problem is in the number of them rather than in the way they work. And like I said, I think there are other reasons for that.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 01:27:31 pm by Overdriven »

Offline Lech

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They can run away against melee, this is not right. Increase weight of bows and arrows. I can even don't mind about outrageous damage they deal, but fact that they can run away from infantry and shoot the horses make them only vulnerable to other ranged, which leads to ranged spam that is obvious for everyone that play the game and isn't retarded.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 01:54:22 pm by Lech »