Strategus update: weight, trading, spotting

[Jarlek]

Really the problem is just shields.  If your army is 2H or polearm heavy, you're fine.  With 100 troops you could bring 80 polearms for your polearm army and still have room for 120 other weapons to satisfy your allies.


With shields you're boned.  Each shielder needs 1 shield and 1 weapon, so there's your whole allotment, just on basic gear.


Why does chadz hate shielders.  He's killing this mod!  I bet Skyrim is nice to shielders.

It's actually pretty cool with shielders. You have lots of shiny abilities that you can open up with a shield and it's the best way to negate damage. Although it's not as cool as my Kleptomaniac Orc Mage with a Shiv who can Sneak like a Pro!

[Blondin]

25% speed reduction for troops carrying 1 crate
15% speed reduction for having a horse carry a crate

not much help

It seems that you go faster with horses.

4 horses - 0 crates - speed : 44.550

4 horses - 3 crates - speed : 37,868

Dunno the speed without horses but should be 25.000.

[Brutal]

180% speed with more horses than troops, and equipment worn directly,
130% speed with slow horses,
100%-90% with equipment worn directly (depends on the weight of the equip you wear),
85% if you have more horses than crates,
75% to 40% if you have troops carrying crates.

37.868/44.550 * 100 = 85%

He just didn't specify 85% of what   

[Tears of Destiny]

My fastest was a rouncey clocking at Speed: 99.100 meters per minute  1 guy 1 rouncey and no cargo!

[Slamz]

It seems that you go faster with horses.

4 horses - 0 crates - speed : 44.550

4 horses - 3 crates - speed : 37,868

Dunno the speed without horses but should be 25.000.

1000 horses and 1 crate will still be 85% speed relative to 1 troop and 0 crates.

So if you want to move full speed, it's vital that you get your army down to 0 crates.  100 troops with 0 crates will outrun 100 troops, 200 horses and 1 crate.  If your army is shield heavy then it's very difficult to avoid having a few crates.  (Note that caravans will always have crates anyway.)

[Blondin]

100 troops with 0 crates will outrun 100 troops, 200 horses and 1 crate.

I think it's :
100 troops with 0 crates = speed 25 (less because number of troops influence speed)
100 troops, 200 horses and 1(to 199) crates = speed 38

As said Brutal "He just didn't specify 85% of what", let's try to resume what i tested (not considering terrain) :
1 troop, 0 horse, 0 crate = speed 25
1 troop, 2 horses, 0 crate = speed 45 (180% of 25, or 130% with slow horse)
1 troop, 2 horses, 1 crate = speed 38 (85% of 45)

So for every horse (+1) you can carry 6 shields.

My fastest was a rouncey clocking at Speed: 99.100 meters per minute  1 guy 1 rouncey and no cargo!

With quick march?

[Cicero]

this. travelling without creates is meant to be only for very small and light parties - as soon as you're planning to go to a war, you will need crates. The system was designed to allow small raiding parties to move unencumbered, not that everyone can move with that speed. I'm not against changing it, but I see no reason to. Put up a poll, if the majority wants it changed, fine with me.

The advantage of better speed comes with a tradeoff, of course (less versatility). That's working as intended.

the speed works fine for me ; just you need to know how to play and understand the new things.

To be honest if u gonna change things that fast like atm people are trying to buy horses or splitting troops for caravans then all of this stuff will vanish.Yea atm its better than ever and micromanaging is hard and when u change thingS we need to understand and make a new organization.Like you said , there are no reason to change it.Like changing it back to old style will as same as a wipe and trust me people are already leaving cos of some new games ;maybe they will come back but if you gonna wipe this strategus early also due to bugs then yes i can easily say from bashibazouk at least 20 people leave game.Dont take as an offense , again thank you for upgrading strategus and its really good atm but there are facts about wipe also.

[Brutal]

So without considering numbers of troops speed should look like that :

44.55             speed with more horses than troops, and equipment worn directly,
37,868           if you have more horses than crates,
32.5              with slow horses,
27.6              if you have more slow horses than crates
25 to 22.5      with equipment worn directly (depends on the weight of the equip you wear),
18.75 to 10    if you have troops carrying crates.

[Slamz]

Bearing in mind that you need more horses than troops in order to get the horse bonus to begin with.

So a shield army with 49 troops that needs, say, 5 crates, will require 50 horses, which is 9000 gold for rouncies assuming you can get them at 50% discount (and I dunno -- does anyone in the game have enough rouncey skill for a 50% discount?)


So basically it will cost small shield heavy raiding parties ~10,000 gold to overcome a problem that polearm armies don't have.

Why is that, exactly?

Are you all suggesting that shield armies are naturally more powerful than polearm armies, and this is why they are penalized?

(If we went with the slot system then this problem would disappear.  Your typical polearm takes 2 slots, same as my 1H + shield.)

[Mike_of_Kingswell]

This crates stuff makes strat turn more and more into a mathe-browsergame...I sit here with a calculator trying to find the best way to max out speed AND goods...
Cant we have something telling me:
"You can carry up to XYZ goods without mali"
"You move with AB% speed ( -5% for BLABLA -10% for BLUBBLUB)"
"You lack CDE Troops to ride all your horses"

and stuff like that?

I dont want to look into the forums for every tiny bit of information ( which I have to actually HUNT down because there is no "all you need to know" part in the forums ;) ) only to have to calculate the stuff just to know that I am carrying to much stuff or can still take 10 tradegoods with me or that my equip is actually weighting something because i got 5 arrows to much...


Greetz
a rather frustrated
Mike of Kingswell

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[MaHuD]

Well its like playing Alpha Centauri.

A) You can be bothered to calculate the exact number of Energy Credits that you should use.
B) You can just not care and spend the max amount
C) You can spend a rough amount and hope that it was the correct amount, and as a result you might be too short.

Makes the game more fun and interesting in my opinion.

[Slamz]

There is definitely room for some fan sites that have things like Army Upkeep Calculator or Army Speed Calculator, etc.  I mean ideally all that stuff would be built in but realistically it's low priority and something a fan could do instead -- at least so long as chadz keeps publishing all the data!


Incidentally, what about siege equipment?

Is a ladder or siege shield a "weapon" that a troop can equip or is it always packed into a crate, like goods?

(Actually since siege stuff is under "throwing", do 4 siege shields = 1 weapon?)

[Jarlek]

There is definitely room for some fan sites that have things like Army Upkeep Calculator or Army Speed Calculator, etc.  I mean ideally all that stuff would be built in but realistically it's low priority and something a fan could do instead -- at least so long as chadz keeps publishing all the data!


Incidentally, what about siege equipment?

Is a ladder or siege shield a "weapon" that a troop can equip or is it always packed into a crate, like goods?

(Actually since siege stuff is under "throwing", do 4 siege shields = 1 weapon?)

Unless they applied special rules for siege equipment, yes.

Although this can be quite interesting. The main reason siege equipment is so expensive is because they don't want too much of them, even though they are mainly planks and ropes. Maybe reduced the price but make them take lots of crate space and can't be carried outside of a crate? So an army with siege stuff will always be slow, thus reducing the ammount of siege equipment without taking away all your gold? I remember someone comparing the price of one build catapult to scythemen, and the catapult was WAY too expensive. Even compared to cav units.

[Gomer]

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