Round Shields...(Nerf thread)

[Xant]

Here's how you can stop that: just sidestep and slash with a long 2h/polearm. It doesn't matter if the shielder has high athletics, it's just a matter of finding the right angle. It'll 'go through the shield' just like it goes through blocks on shorter weapons. I do this all the time to shielders when I'm a 2-hander/polearm user.

I do think he said "good shield users." They're not just gonna let you sidestep and slash them in the ribs.

[Camaris]

I do think Huscarl should be nerfed => it should get a lot more weight
Or it should cost about 8-10k because its best so it should cost the most.

But in addition there should be more skill: 4,5,6 shields being worth it.

[Raskolnikov]

Though shielders are my nemesis, I don't want to see them take too much of a nerf. I'd be happy with an increase in weight for all shields (slow you bastards down a bit more ) and an actual buff in stats for those shields which are at the moment rarely ever used.

[bredeus]

Though shielders are my nemesis, I don't want to see them take too much of a nerf. I'd be happy with an increase in weight for all shields (slow you bastards down a bit more ) but an actual buff in stats for those shields which are at the moment rarely ever used.

mate shields are heaviest than in native already.

[bruce]

The problem is that except Huscarl shield, and a few other larger round shields (heavy round shield is a cheap option), the "vertical" shields aren't really protective from ranged. Even the board shield, which is visually goddamn large, has much less defacto coverage then a huscarl, with 28 width vs 43 width. Huscarl is basically 53% wider. Wtf?

[Noble Crassius]

Or we'll just have less shielders overall.

Less shielders over all will be a GOOD thing. There are so many shielders out there now with more and more popping up every day its hard not to say this class is op. This class can make an average player top the score boards pretty consistently (me before I realized I was playing a horribly OP class and stopped trying so hard.)

You even acknowledge that 1hers are the weakest of the holy trinity (2h/pole/1h) of melee. 

Yes but context is always a good thing to include, why we are weakest is because were so encumbered we act like TURTLES. I think were OP in the fact that (since none disagreed with this I have to assume its agreed) we finally can counter-attack pretty damn effectively (we can't really get spammed to death anymore - 2hands/PA HAVE to block against us) but our untouchable defense is still there! Our class is afforded HIGH OFFENSE and UNPENATRATBLE DEFENSE can you say that’s true of any other class?

The shields are annoying you and they have alot of haters, I hear it in VOIP all the time.  Hate shields.  They're not strong, but "gay" or "annoying" or "ez-mode".  Not a balance thing, just a personal dislike for them is rather prevelant among the non-shielders since they're seen as lesser players.

It's more than a personal dislike for them I've spent 7 gens as a shielder starting from pre-patch, and I got to say I highly dislike my class as it is now cause it's so OP. Lets not take a look at it stat wise but from the fact that our blocking is so easy we only die due to US making a mistake. That is the ONLY way for us to die. That’s ok tho because it's what shields are for. However now that we can attack so effectively is it really fair to everyone else?

 I don't use my 1hander anymore why? Because I get no pleasure out of killing some one anymore it’s so EASY.

[Xant]

You even acknowledge that 1hers are the weakest of the holy trinity (2h/pole/1h) of melee.

No, they really aren't. Overall, they're by far the strongest. Their only weakness? Axes, and even then.... you can still have a weapon superior to a katana in your hands after your shield is broken.

Playing a shielder is ridiculously easy, really. Mostly because people just suck so hard vs them, but as a 2hander I'd rather fight two really skilled 2handers at once than one really skilled shielder with a heirloomed sidesword. But yeah, basically you get tons of free kills by just holding RMB, watching and giggling as people run at you with a chambered attack.. then you attack, run forward, score a hit. Then hold RMB again, no matter how skilled the opponent is, it doesn't matter. He can do the most awesome feint ever, you can just rofl as long as your finger doesn't cramp.

But hey, I'm not calling for a nerf. I was just curious to see how hard it can be to play a 1hander after all these requests to buff it/nerf others... and it's not hard, at all. It's just like 2hander minus the need to block (hardest part of the game) and having tons of retards misjudge your range totally.

[Elmetiacos]

Playing a shielder is ridiculously easy, really. Mostly because people just suck so hard vs them, but as a 2hander I'd rather fight two really skilled 2handers at once than one really skilled shielder with a heirloomed sidesword. But yeah, basically you get tons of free kills by just holding RMB, watching and giggling as people run at you with a chambered attack.. then you attack, run forward, score a hit. Then hold RMB again, no matter how skilled the opponent is, it doesn't matter. He can do the most awesome feint ever, you can just rofl as long as your finger doesn't cramp.

Bah.

[Noble Crassius]

I have a dream! That one day little girl shielders and little boy shielders can be considered EQUAL to their 2h/PA peers. That ONE DAY shielders will not be viewed as a lower class of play but instead EQUAL! To do this we need to stop CRUTCHING ON OUR SHIELDS , let’s not let any but the heaviest among us last 10+ hits! Let’s not be so OVER-ENCUMBERED by our shields that we are for all intensive purposes snapping turtles (SUB-HUMAN). This is no longer a call to nerf ONE SHIELD but to completely REVOLUTIONIZE how shields are viewed and used!

New poll, If you have an idea to make it unbiased as possible/improvements please feel free to share them.

[Spawny]

Ever tried taking your fancy shield to the duelservers?

I have. Tons of times. I get owned by every single good dueler out there.

Feinting with a shield is slower -> Easier to block. Especially with a huscarl shield. I changed to a knightly heater or elite cav shield for more speed and did a bit better.

If you don't turn fast enough, they can bypass your shield from the side and just swing through it. Something that does not happen with a plain right block when I put my shield away.

On a battle or siege server, when I've fought a decent manual blocker and managed to kill him, more often than not my shield won't take another 2 hits before breaking. I've never seen a 2h sword break.

When looking at the score boards, it's still not just shielders in the top 10, but mostly a variety of classes. Just because everyone uses the huscarl shield doesn't mean it's OP, it just means it's the best shield around.

[Xant]

Ever tried taking your fancy shield to the duelservers?

I have. Tons of times. I get owned by every single good dueler out there.

Presumably, then, you don't get owned by good duelers when you're not using a shield?

[bruce]

Bah, take your 2h/polearm vs shield arguments elsewhere. This is about internal shield balance. Non-round shields suck too much compared to round shields.

[Noble Crassius]

Good points, let me see if I can't address them to your likeing..

Ever tried taking your fancy shield to the duelservers?
Shields are not for duels (except buckler) you'll get owned by back peddle spam. Plus duelist are usually top of the line players if you have to bring a shield to even stand a chance against them then this game type isn’t for you
I have. Tons of times. I get owned by every single good dueler out there.
The TURTH!
Feinting with a shield is slower -> Easier to block. Especially with a huscarl shield. I changed to a knightly heater or elite cav shield for more speed and did a bit better.
I want to NERF the survivability of top teir shields and make them faster/less encumbering
If you don't turn fast enough, they can bypass your shield from the side and just swing through it. Something that does not happen with a plain right block when I put my shield away.
This happens occasionally and is due to both of the players skilled involved. This is a personnel issue of yours and not readily acceptable as a balancing argument
On a battle or siege server, when I've fought a decent manual blocker and managed to kill him, more often than not my shield won't take another 2 hits before breaking. I've never seen a 2h sword break.
Should you be beating these good players so readily? I mean would you be able to beat them consistently with say a 2h? And just pick another one off the ground 
When looking at the score boards, it's still not just shielders in the top 10, but mostly a variety of classes. Just because everyone uses the huscarl shield doesn't mean it's OP, it just means it's the best shield around.
This is true only because most good players ditch the shield asap because it's viewed as EZ mode. people see 1handers as UP because it’s the goto choice for newbies and noobs alike but when a DECENT player stays with this build it becomes deadly

Let me sum up my points of this whole thread to those just joining in:
1. Nerf the survivabilty of higher teir shields - solving the biggest complaints from 2h/PA users.
2. In exchange make the shields less encumbering - solving the biggest issue facing 1h currently, which is struggling to keep people in our wep range
3. If HP gets heavily nerfed (more than -100 hp to top teir shield) A nice speed bonus should be included as well to make our feinting/counters faster

This will decrease surviabilty and increase our ability to kill - putting us on par with 2h/pa users.
 

[Vygar]

Primary 1h/Shield users trade a great deal in terms of mobility and attack initiation speed when using their weapon and shield simultaneously.  If anything, Shield Skill should Contribute to Damage and/or speed in order to offset this discrepancy.  There really is too little return.

I've very recently abandoned my Side Sword/Steel Shield toon for an all Polearm character with such great success that  I don't even carry a shield at all anymore.

[Noble Crassius]

Primary 1h/Shield users trade a great deal in terms of mobility and attack initiation speed when using their weapon and shield simultaneously.  If anything, Shield Skill should Contribute to Damage and/or speed in order to offset this discrepancy.  There really is too little return.

I've very recently abandoned my Side Sword/Steel Shield toon for an all Polearm character with such great success that  I don't even carry a shield at all anymore.

Yes that’s exactly what I want changed!! but to do this a HP nerf would have to be in order I mean lets face it unless an axe is brought out our shields won't break to a single opponent, which basically = I win...Unless you know you fuck it up.